Tuesday February 9th, 2010
- Last update:10 hours 20 min ago
Hidden guns an act of betrayal—Philbert
Published: 13 Aug 2009
An act of betrayal that cuts deep into the very heart of the Police Service. This was how acting Police Commissioner James Philbert vented his anger yesterday, over the cache of arms, ammunition and narcotics found hidden in parts of the ceiling at the St Joseph Police Station last Saturday. Philbert, while addressing media members at a press briefing held at Police Administration Building in Port-of-Spain, minced no words as he promised to seek out the perpetrators and bring them to justice.
And one such means, Philbert said, was to have some 38 officers, who had since been transferred from the station, to undergo DNA testing and be fingerprinted. Despite these assurances, the top cop cited a similar incident in March 2008 at Sangre Grande Police Station, where a quantity of marijuana was discovered hidden in lockers. Eight officers were subsequently transferred from that station. That matter is still under investigation because of incomplete forensic testing. Referring to the incident at St Joseph Police Station as a “burning issue,” Philbert said the items seized had also been sent to the Forensic Science Centre in St James for analysis.
“We consider this matter to be very serious and it cuts deep into the heart of the Police Service...it cuts into the integrity of the service...it cuts into the public confidence which we are concerned about and which we find have lost ground,” he said. Saying the seized items were “ill-placed” in station, Philbert added, “We see this as a betrayal of the Police Service.” He said there was no prima facie evidence to allow the suspension of certain officers at the St Joseph Police Station. “The law does not allow us to madly scramble people up and take them to court,” he said. “We would have preferred if it was easier to pursue this manner, but we must follow the rule of law,” Philbert said.
He said the transfer of officers from the St Joseph Police Station to other stations within the Northern Division did not represent “the end process of the probe.” Neither, Philbert added, did it serve as “punishment” to the transferred lawmen. “The idea of transferring the officers is to allow a free operation of the investigation and we wish to start afresh at St Joseph Police Station, so the general public will not be going to any ‘questionable’ officers at that station,” he said.
instead the general public
instead the general public will be going to questionable officers in other stations, noncompoop.
now that he mention it, all cops should give a voluntary dna sample
as a matter of record. this will be very revealing.
in any case, dna is available in hair samples, beer bottles, cigarette butts, etc.
Quote-"it cuts into the
Quote-"it cuts into the public confidence which we are concerned about and which we find have lost ground,” he said. Saying the seized items were “ill-placed” in station, Philbert added," -...... Philly how many times are you going to say in your statements that the public is losing trust in the police service?? Do you have a murder toll record near by? Could you look at it and see whether you think the public should have ANY confidence in the police?? Please stop assuming that because a handful of the public are afflicted with mental retardation to believe your crap that the rest of the public is as well..... Also the seized items were "ill-placed" - I have never ill-placed my keys in the roof of my house, go back and come better than that please...
Heart needs life support. 17
Heart needs life support.
17 1/2 Months ago the Sangre Grande investigation began and is still continuing and has not been concluded because of 'incomplete forensic testing'. And this was only a small amount of marijuana found in the lockers.
So, tell us, Honourable Commissioner, when is this one going to be completed? Next 2 years?
By that time, the heart that has been stabbed will need life support machines. Just now this corpus called the police service will need a heart transplant, but it seems like the undertaker is ready to go into action... tonnerre!!
ajfyzabadbutlertown
An act of betrayal that cuts
An act of betrayal that cuts deep into the very heart of the Police Service.
I guess it was not acts of betrayal when we had prior incidents of gun (and uniform) rentals, guns which were later proven to have been used to commit murder, and other crimes.
This CoP only now feeling betrayed? The entire population felt betrayed when he refused to walk off the job at retirement age, and when Stephen Williams was selected.
“The law does not allow us to madly scramble people up and take them to court,” he said. “We would have preferred if it was easier to pursue this manner, but we must follow the rule of law,” Philbert said.
Two words on the 'mad scamble'... Clint Argyle.
Of course they would have preferred if it was 'easier to pursue'... this way, it means work... someone has to get up and stop shining the khaki on his/her a**e, and actually become ambulatory at least...
Jumbie's Watch
Mr. Philbert, we feel your
Mr. Philbert, we feel your pain and disappointment in your officers who took an Oath to Serve and Protect the people of this county. Instead of working for us, they have joined the 'army of the devil' - criminals in their rampage to destroy us. If the law does not allow you to charge them without evidence, then why not Suspend them while the investigation is ongoing. Transferring them to other jurisdictions is like giving them a free pass. If our P.M. did not hire Private Security Detail to guard his and the missus person, you could have assigned these officers to La Fantasie. What a lost opportunity. Why is the March 2008 investigation taking so long to complete - its almost 1 1/2 years. At this rate we can expect this current St. Joseph episode to go on as usual. Some of these officers may retire or resign before we can see the end of this investigation. Taking DNA of these officers may be a good step, but while you are at it why not take the DNA of each and every officer in the Force, and push this gov't to have effective and efficient DNA labs to process the work in a timely fashion. In this way, anytime an officer is suspected of committing a crime, you can check their DNA - or will we be violating their human rights. We must consider ...
I still don't see any reason
I still don't see any reason legally why these officer cannot be suspended from active duty pending the outcome of this investigation. Am I missing something here?
Mr Philbert added “We see this as a betrayal of the Police Service.”
However we the people see this as the continued betrayal towards us by the police service.
Hopefully something does comes out of this investigation and the guilty offices brought to justice. These investigations should not stop with just this batch, but efforts made to stamp out all the criminal elements in the service.
While I feel Mr Philbert's
While I feel Mr Philbert's frustration, he has done nothing to circumvent these types of acts perpetrated by police officers.
Before a person can get into the police service, they have to undergo a series of tests, one of which is a lie detector test, so why can't an annual fitness (physical, emotional and mental) evaluation be carried out?
There is no doubt that this is a stressful career, but nothing is done to protect the service's "assets", their human resources. More emphasis is spent on non-human "assets" like vehicles, etc, than on the staff.
'Police and thief' game this
'Police and thief' game this sure ain't, epsomsalts.
The only stress I seeing is for the innocent and not - so-innocent men and women and children who going to get kill by illegally trafficked police guns and drugs. When the police fella kill he outside girlfriend, that is family stress impacting the workplace. But when them fellas hiding gun and drugs in the ceiling of a policestation, you feel they going to be using those guns to play 'cops and robbers' or as we say in trini parlance 'police and thief'?
You think is a movie these crooked cops going to act?
So, eh eh, this one eh no stress thing. This one is plain ole criminal activities by downright, brassface, boldface crooked policemen who have used the cover and protection of their official status and uniform to traffic in illegal drugs and ammunition.
Man, and ah bet you it have plenty police covering up for police inside the police service too.
Remember, these are only who 'play stupid' and get ketch. What about the ones that got away. You know how much people mussbe get kill by police illegal gun and drugs?
Mr Commissioner, you think you dealing with 'easy' men out there in the service? You would recall Clint Huggins of Dole Chadee fame was a police officer (srp)? How many Clint Huggins and accomplices are there in the service right now? Bet Jack Warner's last dollar it's plenty plenty!!!
One more question: how safe and secure is the public from crooked policemen who, it seems, only get a lil transfer for a serious crime like drugs and arms trafficking while john public out there who are in the same crime and get caught by these same kinda policemen have to face the court? Man, the non-uniformed criminal eh going to care a damn!!!!
ajfyzabadbutlertown
...the somber, plaintive
...the somber, plaintive sounds of impotence....
Ok Mr. CoP, I am hearing the
Ok Mr. CoP, I am hearing the right things from you and I genuinely believe you wish to see your service cleaned up unlike your doh-care-damn predecessor (and the PM for that matter). However, if an officer's firearm is discharged in the line of duty (in the US...not sure about here) the officer is placed on suspension pending investigation of the incident.
I believe this situation warrants such action. ALL of the officers who were transferred should be suspended with pay pending investigation and their badges and guns turned in as well. Don't let anyone or any organization or any politician deter you from purging the service of these miscreants Mr. Philbert. You might be our last, best hope assuming you are above the corruption that is endemic in today's police service...so go brave!!
I seem to recall
I seem to recall
Two years ago or so, it was reported that a policeman was fired, that's right, fired, for taking two or was it three sheets of paper.
Another policeman was 'fired' for having words with the security detail of the Prime Minister.
Here we have 38 (!) police officers allegedly involved in concealment of weapons and drugs and they are transferred?
Okey dokey...
I have been hearing for well over twenty (20) years, of corruption etc in the police force and it is only now, with this latest incident that "an act of betrayal has cut deep into the very heart of the Police Service"?
Ok...
La Diva
Your lack of action and
Your lack of action and incompetence mister Commisioner is an act of betrayal to the people of TnT..You transferred the cops,why?? Maybe they have something on you!!!!!
Please resign!!!
Fred from Corinth
I am amazed at some of the
I am amazed at some of the comments here. Take this one for example.
Here we have 38 (!) police officers allegedly involved in concealment of weapons and drugs and they are transferred?
Here it is, we have 6 guns, some ammunition, and some drugs that were found in the ceiling of one small office in a building, but we want to indict all of the current 38 officers that worked in that building.
Do we know how long those items were placed there?
When we find out, will we be suspicious of every officer that worked in that building during the time the items were placed there, and the time they were discovered?
How about the station cleaner?
What if the officers assigned to investigate traffic accidents had never entered that office?
How about the station recorder who works from 8 - 4, and only handles the administration, paper work, ordering of supplies, and other clerical duties of the station?
How about the women police officers who only deal with juveniles and and matters involving females, and have their own office?
What about the charge room officers who only sit at the front and take reports? Do we know if any of them ever entered that room?
What about the First Division Officers that visited the stations? Do we look at them as suspects also?
Mr.Philbert took the appropriate action thus far, in transferring the officers.
But to suggest further punitive actions, without the results of a proper investigation, is to go against the most important tenet of civilized people -- "Innocent until proven guilty".
I agree 'Twoleft' let us
I agree 'Twoleft' let us give the investigation a chance and await its outcome. Also, we are a country of laws (don't laugh)and we cant just fire the officers without due process. They were transferred which is sufficient for now. Those officers who were transferred and are complaining about their innocence and the unfairness of the mass transfers only have themselves to blame. If they knew of any criminal activity by their fellow officers and didn't speak up then they too have betrayed the badge. Don S. NY
Twoleft! what is being
Twoleft! what is being suggested is that these officers be suspended from duty pending the outcome of the investigation, which is reasonable given the circumstances - after all they are the main suspects.
While the results of the investigation may show all or a few or maybe none of them are guilty. The prudent thing to do will be to not take the risk of having possible (armed) felons continuing to operate as police officers.
exactly stewpeas...and
exactly stewpeas...and suspension with pay pending the outcome of an investigation does not presume guilt in any way! I don't see any rational reason for someone to oppose such a move. The innocent will be re-instated, the guilty will be prosecuted according to the law. Is it that we simply cannot do without 38 officers for the period of an investigation?? If so God help us all.
Twoleft, I am amazed
Twoleft, I am amazed
you are amazed. But, thank you for choosing my comment to quote. :D
In selecting my comment for the honour, you omitted to highlight my use of the word 'allegedly', which I have not seen any other poster use. Apologies if I missed it. Or perhaps, this is what triggered the theme of your post, 'innocent until proven guilty'?
PS. If it should happen that police find guns, drugs and ammunition concealed in one of my offices, which others have access to, I trust I will be 'transfered' rather than suspended or fired.
La Diva
In principle, I agree with
In principle, I agree with Twoleft that we should give the CoP an opportunity to have the matter of the guns and drugs at the St. Joseph police station investigated before taking more drastic action. But I believe that the CoP mishandled this "tip" by having the items removed from the ceiling. He, the PS and by extension, the country, would have been better served by having CCTV equipment installed and monitored to see who was adding or attempting to remove these items from their hiding place. Then and only then would they have been sure as to who were the culprits involved in this illegal activity.
I also believe that it is high time for some other actions to be taken to bring the TTPS up to current world standards in 2009. These include DNA samples and fingerprints from every officer to be on file. Also drug screenings to be conducted randomly on all officers. We should not be only looking to do these things when something happens, but they should already be in place.
The other fact is the length of time it takes for these "investigations" to come to a conclusion. Why do they take so long and seem to drag on forever, except when their is an accusation against an officer involved with the PM? The PM is king, and everyone else be damned.
From the comments I am
From the comments I am reading, I can only assume that you all are being side tracked. If this had happened in any other country, the chief of police (in this case it is the commissioner of police, Mr Philbert) would be the first to resign.
THEREFORE, I WOULD LIKE TO CALL ON MR PHILBERT TO RESIGN IMMEDIATELY!!!!
Sorry folks, but I don't
Sorry folks, but I don't agree with the calls for Philbert to resign. If anyone has been paying attention, he has actually been making some strides and does not seem on the face of it to be completely clueless or a puppet of the government. The same cannot be said of his most recent predecessors. While I was and remain distrustful of the manner in which his appointment was made, I believe he will show his true mettle yet.
Something about Philbert
Something about Philbert strikes a cord with me. I agree with you Warren. I was very disappointed when Stephen Williams didn't get pick but decided to give Philbert the benefit of my doubt. He has always risen to the occasion. Pity he wasn't in that position long before. Still I too want all the cops suspended. Does anyone recall how those officers handled the raid on the Express reporter's house on Dec 30th last year? I was outraged. Those villans stationed at St. Joseph were nothing but thugs and lords unto themselves. Would anyone pick up the cause of that reporter's family? Old people were intimidated. The family could not even stand up for their rights and the rights of these cops are being protected..hogwash. Philbert I await your delivery.
Let me remind you all that
Let me remind you all that in the so called First World countries they do not "suspend" police officers who are being investigated for "misconduct". They put them on "administrative leave" with pay, or without pay, as the situation warrants.
Just the word "suspension" has a punitive conotation.
If it is found that Officer number xxxxxx put those items there for whatever reason, what crime do they charge him with? What is the "mens rea" behind such actions?
What if during the period that the items were placed there, some officers were on long leave working in Brooklyn, and only returned to duty the day the place was raided? Do they get "suspended" also?
Also, there is this little roadblock called the "Police Service Act" which defines what Mr.Philbert can do, and what he cannot do. If we didn't have these so called "road blocks" in civilized society, the entire world would be in a state of anarchy.
So unless we put on Mr.Philbert's garbadine pants, and walk a mile in his shiny brown shoes, let us rock back a little, tone down our emotions, and be cognizant of the fact that Mr.Philbert has to act within the law that governs his appointment.
Twoleft, First world?
Twoleft, First world?
"Let me remind you all that in the so called First World countries they do not "suspend" police officers who are being investigated for "misconduct"."
The last time I checked, it was not yet 2020. In any event, administrative leave? In some First World countries, they actually call it 'gardening leave'! Gardening leave is perhaps more fitting for Trinbago, given our climate and 'back'yards...
La Diva
...and also "exclusion"
...and also "exclusion"
The COP in this case is
The COP in this case is attempting to try and convict these officers in the media raids like this should be held confidential and when there is enough evidence available to charge these officer then statements should be made.This is the reason why so many criminals and even the police that commit crimes are found innocent and their cases dismissed.Information is leeked to the press before the real evidence is collected to support their case this tends to make the public more cautious of the police department that want to build public thrust in the media while making these reckless statements without evidence this looks like an operation the PM will pull off to get attention like someone wants him assisinated ask my wife
I read in another newspaper
I read in another newspaper that the police have launched an investigation into the allegations made by the PM that there was a plot to assasinate him last year (around the time of the anniversary of the 1990 attempted coup). What a coincidence? What I find even more interesting and beyond the pale of logic is the fact that Mr. Manning reportedly told his PNM rally audience that he learned of the pending attempt on his life from his wife who someone walked into her office and told her the news. How farfetched is that? I would like to see if I could just walk into the goodly woman's office, without an appointment and get to see her and give her such a message. How far will I get or how long will I have to wait to see Madam Local Govt Minister? He made it sound so nonchalant, that someone could just walk in off the street and deliver this news to his wife. Come on Mr. Manning, get real.
I am ready to take on anyone
I am ready to take on anyone who says that James Philbert has not been the best (acting) CoP the TTPS has had in many a year. The man has this mountain in front of him so of course he will have limited success going up against tradition. Imagine he is going to transfer officers involved in egregious actions that bring into question their suitability to be police at a time when public confidence in the service is low and getting lower and what do some of these cops threaten? To go on vacation. Are these jokers for real?
I suspect that if he had the full authority a commissioner should have, the service would be minus many non-performing officers. Thereon lies the real issue. He does not have the authority to act they way he should.
I totally agree these cops should not be sent to other stations but if the most the man can do now is transfer them what do people want him to do instead? The last officer that we know of who was fired, the one who confronted Mannings's dotish security detail in the now infamous attempt on Manning's life, that cop was fired going on a year after the incident. I personally think he should not have been fired but that is another story.
So people, vent you anger and rage at the process that does not allow the CoP and his direct reports to immediately discipline officers. Vent your anger and rage at the people who put in place and govern the process. Vent your anger at the politicians who put the people in place that govern the process. Politicians who point the finger of blame at the other side and fiddle while Trinidad burns. Breathalyzer legislation has been passed many years ago and is not yet law, why? It is 2009 and the TTPS does not have the ability to accurately tell how fast a vehicle is traveling at night and the process for doing so in the daytime is from the early 1900s. Why? Yet we having start-of-the-art 90 and 270 foot long patrol and ocean-going boats for the Coast Guard under construction in Australia and England.
Vent your anger at the people who elect the politicians, they are the ones with the real power to change things.
barbourg. What I cannot
barbourg.
What I cannot understand is, these 38 policemen have been transfered to other stations in the north after illegal guns and drugs were found in the St Joseph police station. Should any of these officers or any other officers for that matter carry out a raid at anyone's home and the same articles were found in the building, all, everyone in the building would have been arrested, locked up, questioned and then brought before the courts charged with the possession of illegal firearms, ammunition and drugs to name a few. What is preventing the CoP from doing the same? Is it a case of different strokes for different folks, or the Police have been arresting pepole in the sane situation illegally?
How come When they make ah
How come
When they make ah raid on ah house and find narcotics, everyone in the house going down for questioning and charges until somebody squeal, but when police in thing they get tranfe3red to franchaise there criminal business. Yes, the 38 officers are not all bad. One other question is, the person who made the phone call, how did he know the drugs were in the station, but what troubles me more, is that if he knew exactly where it was, this is suspicious, sounds like one of their own maybe turning on them, funny if it is true.
How come When they make ah
How come
When they make ah raid on ah house and find narcotics, everyone in the house going down for questioning and charges until somebody squeal, but when police in thing they get transfered to franchaise there criminal business. Yes, the 38 officers are not all bad. One other question is, the person who made the phone call, how did he know the drugs were in the station, but what troubles me more, is that if he knew exactly where it was, this is suspicious, sounds like one of their own maybe turning on them, funny if it is true.
How come When they make ah
How come
When they make ah raid on ah house and find narcotics, everyone in the house going down for questioning and charges until somebody squeal, but when police in thing they get transfered to franchaise there criminal business. Yes, the 38 officers are not all bad. One other question is, the person who made the phone call, how did he know the drugs were in the station, but what troubles me more, is that if he knew exactly where it was, this is suspicious, sounds like one of their own maybe turning on them, funny if it is true.
Fensic and
Fensic and HoustonTrini
Those were two excellent, thoughtful, and clearly delivered posts.
They should be required reading for many of us Trinis who just like to mash fingers down to keyboard, while brain is still in neutral.
When cock get teeth, the
When cock get teeth, the investigation will finish? Here are some questions and answers:
1. How long it go take, Mr Commissioner, how long? Ans: years.
2. You transferred them, in accordance with the Police Service Regulations: you think they will behave differently in their respective new jurisdictions? Ans: Business as usual.
3. You think they will get promotion to higher ranks before the investigation done in a few years? Ans: What you expect?
4. You think you will retire before the investigation end, Mr Commish?
Ans: (Don't mean to be rude) Yes!
5. You think they go find the real person who put them ting dey? Ans: When cock get teeth.
ajfyzabadbutlertown