Tuesday February 9th, 2010
- Last update:15 hours 7 min ago
Protest over police killings...
Beetham heats up
Published: 16 Oct 2009
Riot almost broke out at Beetham Gardens late yesterday, after angry residents blocked the Beetham Highway and Main Street. The residents were protesting the police killing of Ricky Roberts, 39, and 45-year-old Fabien Mauge, both of Beetham Gardens. The villagers claimed the men were murdered by police on Wednesday night. Gunshots echoed in the community and police officers warned members of the media not to venture into Hell Yard, Beetham. “Don’t go inside of there because they shooting up the place,” a policeman warned. “Beetham people want war tonight so all you better get out of here,” the officer shouted from an unmarked police vehicle as it sped out of the area to the Priority Bus Route.
The drama started shortly before 6 pm, after scores of irate residents blocked the highway causing a traffic jam. Rush hour traffic dragged from the Hasely Crawford Stadium to the highway. There was also traffic on the Priority Bus Route and the Eastern Main Road as motorists sought alternative routes in order to get out of the area. Tires and debris were thrown unto the highway and set on fire by the villagers, who demanded justice for the killings. Scores of heavily-armed officers from various elite police units were called to the scene to restore order. Insp Walcott of the Inter Agancy Task Force said the incident at Beethem stemmed from a shoot-out between police and two murder suspects.
“As a result of that (police killing) they (the residents) are mobilising forces within the area and blocked the bus route and the highway and they started pelting bottles at anything,” Walcott said. “The thing is that we have to put law and order back into the streets and we have to do it one way.” He said when officers arrived in the area their main objective was to get the residents off the streets so that a level of normalcy could be restored. Walcott said any further incidents of lawlessness would be dealt with in accordance with the law. “It’s a zero tolerance approach we are taking and as far as we get things to arrest people for, they would be arrested,” he said.
“We heard some shots fired up in Hell Yard earlier. But again, the situation is now under control,” he added, as he ordered heavily-armed officers to take up various positions in the area. A villager said the officers should have dealt with the incident in a better manner. “They didn’t have to shoot and kill them fellas last (Wednesday) night,” he said. A woman accused other officers of taking them into enemy land, Pump Trace, Laventille, to be killed by rivals. However, up to late yesterday, there were no complaints of police brutality by Beetham residents in the area. Acting ASP Sahadeo Singh supervised the clearing of the highway which allowed traffic to flow freely once again.
AT ELECTIONS TIME
AT ELECTIONS TIME -
Money pass, these are community leaders and PNM activists. Now they are bandits and hooligans. Election time the Jamat are PNM activist now they are Insurrectionist. Rowley when he accuses UNC of corruption he is a Rottweiler, when he accuses Hart of unsavoury practices he is a Wajank. Use me then abuse me, black on black mental slavery. This is acceptable because,
1) We in power
2) We have the treasury
3) Panday have case
4) Collateral damage
5) They thief
6) 20/20 vision
7) They fighting
8) Moral and Spiritual Values
9) Who we go put
10) All ah we thief
Somebody fooling somebody.
WHAT IS GOING ON
WHAT IS GOING ON -
1) Chinese slave labour, Trini Chinese quiet.
2) Indians say Panday did not do enough for them, they fighting among themselves.
3) African Ethnic Cleansing, African Leaders quiet.
It is only the White, Caucasians that care about themselves?
Three possible explanations
Three possible explanations from the Nobel Committee
By Calvin Trillin
1.
Don't be surprised. Don't gasp. Don't faint.
We've simply said, "George Bush he ain't."
2.
The prize diplomacy can reap'll
Prevent this guy from bombing people.
3.
Since Henry Kissinger has won,
You know that this is all in fun.
AND WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER?
AND WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER? -
An Islamic State.
T&T is just out of control,
T&T is just out of control, the daily news backs-up this fact. There is nothing more that can be said that hasn't already been mentioned about the dire state of affairs.
WE NEED CHANGE - lets start with ourselves
And these are symptoms of
And these are symptoms of the country cracking up with stress. Look into TT from afar, you see it, TT bust money done, thief it from people in guise of property tax, the smelter no one wants-the pollution, Claxton Bay Steel plant- the destruction of mangroves, the cyclical floods that go back 20 years unsolved, the crime, the murders, the corruption, Udecott, the Dengue uncontrolled, the hospitals, pensions, the courts scheduling the same case in 2 courtrooms on the same day, the people are saturated, the people are stressed, they ready to burst out, The Debe burning tyres, Fyzabad burn more tyres, Beetham burn yet more tyres. and I am sure there are other tyre burning places that dont make the news. Does this remind you of an African country?
One set of hypocrites
One set of hypocrites posting here! If the police do nothing they failures, when they act, they are failures...Damn Hypocrites!
Fight fire with fire...damn bandits claiming brutality, why do they have guns? did you jokers hear how one bandit just found a gun and since he did not know what to do with it so they kept it?
Please....!
I don't get it Doc...the
I don't get it Doc...the police were not criticised in this thread??
MISSING THE POINT GERSHWIN-
MISSING THE POINT GERSHWIN-
Maybe they are saying doing nothing is bad, but doing things illegally or the wrong way is also bad.
Villager: “They didn’t
Villager: “They didn’t have to shoot and kill them fellas last (Wednesday) night,”
I agree, when the 2 guys opened fire on the police, they (the police) should have shot them in their hands or legs so as to disable them.
No, I'm not drunk on this Friday morning, I'm just being sarcastic...
http://dsaltsman.blogspot.com/
Living in the ghetto is not
Living in the ghetto is not an excuse to live like animals. A frightening picture is emerging if I take into account the Beetham 'riots' and the Laventille situation which took place a few months ago.
I grew up in a poor community where the standpipe was a God-sent and money and food were in short supply. AT NO TIME was I raised to disrespect the police the way these residents do whenever they have a beef with the authorities.
I see parents disrespecting the police to their face. I see children doing the same.
Further, whatever sins the police may have committed against the Beetham people, what is the rationale for throwing stones and passing cars. Because I commute often to Port-of-Spain, I know this for a fact. It's been going on for years.
Yuh vex, lickle yute walk outside pick up big stone and pelt people car.
Let dignity and respect for self and others prevail. Organise yourselves and use the courts. You are setting the worst example for your own children. Wake up. Poverty is no excuse. Nuff said.
Salts I have to disagree
Salts I have to disagree with you on this Friday my friend...the police should not shoot the bandits at all, the police should have just run out from the area and everybody would have been happy.
Doh worry I not drunk either, is the cold and some of that sarcasm...
Take some vitamin C and Zinc
Take some vitamin C and Zinc for the cold.
Take some "http://dsaltsman.blogspot.com/" for the sarcasm.
Get well soon.
shoot them in their hands
shoot them in their hands and legs,that is great sarcasm. YOU SHOOT CRIMINALS IN THEIR HANDS AND LEGS when you doing target practice at a gun range. when you facing criminals you shoot to bring them down. peace people
love your sarcasm.
Years ago I used to shoot my
Years ago I used to shoot my mouth off. Nowadays I just shoot my mouse off. Isn't technology just great.
It is very difficult to find
It is very difficult to find sympathy for this subculture of Murderers that are destroying our society. They have no compassion for the people they rob, rape and murder.
The jails are full of them, the morgue is full of them, the courts are full of them. And the public is expected to be compassionate and to believe this sub-society when they claim innocence and ignorance.
That car that was involved in the shootout was driving through Beetham, but we are expected to believe that no one in Beetham Gardens saw it, no one knew who was driving it.
The Guntas, the Gangstars, the Movado and Gaza/Gully lovers are destroying Trinidad and Tobago. Get them out, and shut them down.
If this sub-society has grown too pervasive to be affected by Social services and the wider society then it is a shame, but let the Police step in. And Shut Them Down.
-Mayet
The situation in Beetham and
The situation in Beetham and the other communities around POS is complex. If I had to solve it I would not know what to do. However, regardless of all the big picture socio-economic, political and cultural issues associated with these communities one thing stands out in all of this. That one thing is the piss poor standard of policing in this country. Policing in these situations has been reduced to the art of catching a duck to curry; that is, beat, arrest and kill.
I just donot believe that in everycase of police killings the police were responding to being under fire from bandits. People, regardless of where they live will feel the sense of injustice if one of their community is killed cold blooded in the act of surrender.
Our police force, still lead as it is by men who joined the force when the police leadership and intelligensia was white and all that was required of them was to be big and strong is an organisational failure. The newer and younger officers like Supt Williams who was bypassed for a dinasaur are the newer breed that can bring a new face to the police force.
The preference for leadership of the police force is someone who is politically aligned to the ruling party. As long as the PM is the final arbiter as to who will become CoP, the police will fail because as a former CoP is reported to have said, he was not rocking the boat as the PNM was in power. Political obedience is not policing, and as long as it happens the society will continue to fail on many fronts.
I was caught in that madness
I was caught in that madness yesterday evening. The traffic was halted, dead stop on the eastbound lane, burning tyres and debris blocked the entire road, and it was bottlenecked on the westbound lane. There were old fridges and stoves and even a roll of BRC wire in the road. Someone cleared a way forward and vehicles were slowly moving through that one lane gap. I was far behind in the traffic leading up to the gap but when I got to the gap I realized the reason for the slow progress through the gap: the residents on the other side of the highway were pelting the cars passing through with bottles, stones, pieces of iron, anything they could put their hands on. Many drivers were trying to decide if to go through the gap. Some pulled aside and you could see drivers leaning against their cars on the shoulder with dents in the side wondering how and who gonna fix it. Luckily as I was about to pass through, all the pelting stopped as 3 motorcycle police officers pulled up.
What was displayed yesterday was animal behaviour - from animals. I make no apologies, except towards actual animals, for saying that. Protest if you must, but to go beyond that and willfully inflict damage and destruction to property with the owners present or not, is primal animal behaviour.
If the police act, they bawl out "Police Brutality! Abuse of power!". If the police don't act they bawl out "Beetham people is nutten! Police not protecting us!". If there is no water or lights, they burn tyres and block the streets. When T&TEC and WASA go in to effect repairs, they are robbed or shot. How the hell do you proceed? Every potential criminal suspect in the Beetham is the "wrong man"... until their own activities come home to them as a result of their family member's activities.
Man, what happen with them damn well happen with them. I have no damn sympathies. The few innocent and decent people living in the Beetham have a choice to make. Any decision other than LEAVING is illogical. But where are they to go?
What is needed is a hard hand with these jokers. And to hell with Ramesh, Kamla, Wade Mark and Dookeran and whoever else want to talk about abusing the rights of criminals. Our bandits are basically begging, even daring the authorities to deal with them. Manning and Co. too chicken@#$% to give it the treatment it deserves, because you will hear all the opposition groups talking about bandits have rights too, and "police death squad". And of course we stop hanging people. And of course, this is the will of the Privy Council, thousands of isolated miles away, safe.
scelestus latrat, contradictio latrat.
"What is needed is a hard
"What is needed is a hard hand with these jokers" - Very true, so why isn't the government in power i.e. the PNM doing something about it - the only thing they doing is socialising with the community leaders who are in reality the leaders of the bandits.
"Our bandits are basically begging, even daring the authorities to deal with them" - Very true they have no reason to fear those in authority as the police service is a waste (when they do decide to manage crime the only management tool they have is the gun) and the PNMs governance arrangements nurture them.
"And of course we stop hanging people" - show us evidence where hanging is proven to have an effect in reducing serious crimes like murder.
By that brilliant rationale
By that brilliant rationale we should stop jailing people for stealing, rape, vehicular manslaughter, drunk driving, possession of arms and ammunition, drug possession, drug trafficking, second degree murder, assault, arson, so-called white collar crime, to name a small few. Where is the evidence that jailing people for those crimes has had an effect in reducing those crimes?
You could apply all the "reasoning" you like, it only amounts to a personal position, nothing more. The fact that serious crimes like murder and drug trafficking are greatly reduced in countries like China, Singapore, Saudi Arabia means nothing to you, and it should mean nothing to you. I am referring specifically to 1st degree murder, before you go off all half-cocked about "well dem countries have poor human rights records!". Those countries decided to get serious with something that is defeating us. It is merely a matter of common sense. The prospect of death focuses the mind wonderfully. If you knew you would be hanged for certainty if you are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, it becomes easier to decide on a particular course of action. Yours is a futile argument for another forum. I will waste no further time on it.
Your arguement is so weak
Your arguement is so weak and without substance. You state "By that brilliant rationale we should stop jailing people for stealing, rape, vehicular manslaughter, drunk driving, possession of arms and ammunition, drug possession, drug trafficking, second degree murder, assault, arson, so-called white collar crime, to name a small few. Where is the evidence that jailing people for those crimes has had an effect in reducing those crimes?
We do not jail these people to reduce crime, we do so as a punishment and to protect the rest of society from them.
You also state "The prospect of death focuses the mind wonderfully" in your argument to support hanging.
Marchalis - the criminal mind in most instances suffer from some form of mental illness most of which go undiagnosed, the prospect of death therefore cannot focus these type of minds.
As I have pointed out before you are not very smart so don't engage in arguments that are beyond your scope of understanding and ability, you will only succeed in sounding ridiculous...and this is friendly advice.
And you are right you should not waste your time further, instead take up a book and read and educate yourself...
Hanging periodically (every
Hanging periodically (every ten to fifteen years) definitely would not and does not have an effect on the crime situation, but rest assured if the criminals see that swift justice is being done and people are being hung, executed within a short time frame more than likely they would begin thinking before committing a crime. Also, you have to remember that most of the yoouths today who grow up in poverty really are not scared to die. As a matter of fact they would tell you that they would be luicky to reach the age of 20. Education is the key to success and the youths lack quality education.
HOW COULD YOU?
HOW COULD YOU? -
How could you refer to PNM till yuh dead voters as subculture? Ah bet come election nobody will get shot in Beetham or Laventille until the money is distributed to cool down the crime and the votes counted.
MAKE UP YOUR MINDS
MAKE UP YOUR MINDS PEOPLE
you want the people to clean up the place and rid the place of the warriors then get out of the way....... let the people do their jobs. i agree with the way they are doing their jobs. now if they could just go and find the gang members and clean up those areas too, Trinidad will be cleansed.
Police are trained to fire first ask questions after. this is not target practice, if they miss, is them going down. and i believe the police who shoot up that guy house the other day because he is a witness against the police, those shooters should be cleansed also. what's good for peter good for paul. peace people
No Desmond it does not
No Desmond it does not remind me of an African country in particular because this behaviour happens in all countries. Even the first world countries have tyre burning. So don't start with prejudices. You will get this kind of behaviour anywhere there are people who do not know how to properly express themselves and are extremely frustrated and angry. It is not limited to Africans but it is unfortunate.
This was not a protest
This was not a protest because of an unjust killing, this was simply mob behavior and the police should have moved to deal swiftly with the perpetrators. When people engage in protests they do so with the expectation that their plight be recognized by the state or by the wider population so that action may be brought to remedy the problem. These people were not crying for justice, they were crying for vengeance and were willing to take it out on anyone who was not from the area. Please tell me why the average Trinidadian citizen should sympathize with these residents.
To begin with persons who have worked hard to purchase their motorcars have had their property damaged by these hooligans in full view of the public, what recourse do these unfortunate citizens have?? I am sure that members of the public would have been assaulted or robbed had they left their cars to see what the protest was about. Secondly these idiots have delayed thousands of hardworking people who after a hard days work were just trying to go home and get some rest to be at it again in the morning, HARDWORKING PEOPLE!!! Thirdly these two individuals were involved in a crime, which I believe cost another citizen his life not to mention anguish to his family, but these people cry for justice..JUSTICE WAS SERVED!!!
If we are foolish enough to forget the robbing of motorists along the Beetham during last year's flooding by Beetham residents, and sympathize with these animals then it is indeed a sad day for this country. Beetham is a crime hot spot, the government should move to set up an army/police base in the heart of Beetham and conduct daily raids/ searches for this nonsense to STOP!
Lets not forget however that the government doesn't want to upset the "community leaders" in the area so they are pussy footing around this serious issue of public safety. Always remember "GREAT IS THE PNM AND IT SHALL PREVAIL".
What does the PNM, UNC have
What does the PNM, UNC have to do with the state of the country. You seem to want to make it a political issue, but it's first a family issue.
I have read the Trinidad
I have read the Trinidad Express, Newsday and Guardian and their seems to be far conflicting stories. They (the newspaper) need to be more consistent with their stories so that readers would have a better idea as to what's taking place as it pertains to the crime situation. However, it seems as though the police are always having constant problems when they go to Beetham. The residents always seem to protest the police actions, yet criminal activity continue there without disruption. Everytime the police make a raid in Beetham guns are found. Is that a coincidence? Absolutely not. Are the residents harboring criminals? It certainly seems that way, but something needs to be done and done fast in order to restore law, order and peace to the area. Where are the parents? Why is the young man driving drunk without a license? The concerned citizens along with the police need to retake the country back from these criminals who have absolutely no intention of stopping and definitely no regard for life. A strict curfew should be legislated for areas with high crime like Sea Lots, Laventille, Beetham, John John and surrounding areas.
The government has a lot to
The government has a lot to do with the situation going on there but that is another story. I want to point out I know at least two Beetham families. Incidentally both had QRC sons who distinguished themselves at school and now hold senior positions in the private and public sectors. In both families the children have post-grad qualifications.
The point is this: I get that we can't paint all Beetham residents with the same brush. But I maintain, there is a breed of people there that are sub-human.
They have become that way over years of personal and social anguish, much of it brought on by their own choices throughout life. They are mad as hell.
And for that reason they are prepared to fight anybody and anything that seeks to impose authority over them. Or anybody that's 'foreign' to them.
Except of course you are Buju or Capleton or the next jackass Movado.
And you know what's sad they think what they have is a cause: racism, sexism, political injustice. Nonsense. The people are out of control, out of options, God-less.
So dey would pelt yuh tail, rob yuh or beat yuh if they cud. What a sad way to live.
IT IS TOTALLY WRONG
IT IS TOTALLY WRONG -
It is totally wrong to
1) Describe Community Leaders as Criminals.
2) To describe loyal PNM supporters as sub-culture.
3) To insinuate that money pass to these said people to cool down the crime before elections.
4) That PNM has any remote relationship with these people.
5) That any of these people will ever get a job in URP or CEPEP or even control the gangs to the tune of hundreds of millions.
My conclusion is that you all are against PNM and black people controlling the treasury. I think this is what I am supposed to think. It is really UNC fault I am told.