Tuesday February 9th, 2010
- Last update:15 hours 26 min ago
Housing for diplomats costs millions
Published: 7 Sep 2009
Government has entered into a purchase agreement to buy a building in Toronto, Canada, to house staff of the T&T Consulate. This was confirmed by Foreign Affairs Minister Paula Gopee-Scoon yesterday. The sale price for the 16,000-square-foot property, located at 185 Sheppard West, is Can$4.25 million, or TT$23 million. Gopee-Scoon also confirmed that Government was about to purchase a building in Washington, DC, to house diplomatic staff there. Asked if the price of that property was US$17 million, she said, “No; it was much less than that.”
Gopee-Scoon said Prime Minister Patrick Manning is to formally open new consulate offices in New York later this month. She said a new building was bought recently for staff there. It was refurbished and already in use. And Opposition Leader Basdeo Panday was critical of the Government for spending such huge sums of money at a time when it could have been used to benefit more directly the citizens of this country. He said that should not be in the country’s list of priorities when the average citizen was in deed of proper water supply, health care, drainage and other infrastructure.
CDN $4.25 M. T&T Home:- Do
CDN $4.25 M. T&T Home:-
Do you know what $4.25 million Canadian can purchase? Are you kidding? The pricy multi-million dollars condos on Bay St. don't cost that much. Are you buying a whole condo building? Are these prices comparable with Mayfair in London, U.K.
Now Washington, that another question?
Why during a time of low income in T&T are we spending these huge sums of money? It smell of incompetence. Our people cannot have access to the basic necessities in this country, but our gov't is hell bent on their pappy-show here and around the world. Someone, please put a hand ... we need help!
While we are on the subject on diplomatic homes, did we complete renovations on the building in South Africa that was taking eons, while we were paying big bucks elsewhere for our mission person to live in luxury.
We need someone with the mentality of a loans officer, one who deals with the general public in T&T, to sit in the seat in Cabinet to put the APPROVED STAMP on documents before spending could start. It does not appear that the persons in this gov't making the decisions to spend our money have any financial expertise. SPEND, SPEND, SPEND, when the kitty is empty - BORROR, BORROW until no is willing to lend us a penny. No problem, we will put T&T on the auction block, on E-Bay.
Sorry Gardenia
Sorry Gardenia
but I have to disagree with you...
Someone, please put a hand ... we need help!
Why should "someone" put a hand to help us? We need to help ourselves! We are not helpless. How exactly, is another matter, but we have to stop looking outside of ourselves (Trinbago) for help. This is not why we 'won' independence from Great Britain. Depending on who you speak to, some may say that GB gave us our independence rather than us winning it... but that is for discussion over a Carib, or in my case, a bellini.
We need to show Team Manning (I refuse to believe all our policitians are 'tarred' with the same brush) that we, as shareholders of Trinbago PLC expect them to account to us for how they are spending our money.
Education is power, and it is a crime not to use it.
La Diva
Sorry, sweetheart, but I was
Sorry, sweetheart, but I was hoping for some 'devine guidance', La Diva, not a rescue team on land. Some of us are working and pushing for change and accountability, but we are fighting an uphill battle. Point well taken. Onward we go ... ready to fight another day ...
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PS: Recommend you read the comments from "The Pilgrim" lower down and go the web page recommended. Valuable info to have ... Surprise, Surprise ....
Thanks Gardenia
Thanks Gardenia
Have checked out the post by "The Pilgrim". Yes, from the exterior, it does look like it is meant to be office accomodation rather than housing accomodation.
If it is meant to be housing, it would have to be dormitory style as the cost for reconfiguring the interior will be huge! (Kitchens, toilets, showers, living space, sleeping quarters, entertainment areas, etc etc) I do not know about Canada but in some countries there are planning restrictions whereby you cannot convert residential spaces into offices/commercial and vice versa.
Is the Minister being economical with the truth? Or is she being slack with her wording? Or poor reporting? Or all three?
As for the timing of the purchase... that details of the sale do not have to be provided seeing as it was made after the listing... the full purchase price was paid... it smells, and it is not Imperial Majesty scented!
Clive Christian's Imperial Majesty: Price $215,000
British designer Clive Christian's creation has recently been voted in the Guiness Book of World Records the most expensive perfume in the world. The 16.9-ounce perfume bottle is stuck into the 18-carat gold collar that is adorned with a five-carat diamond. Only five bottles are made annually, justifying the eye-popping price.
La Diva
Housing for diplomats
Housing for diplomats
Gardenia,
I could not agree with you more. Being a diplomat in the PNM Administration seems to have its (extreme) perks and appears to be an extension of the wild, extravagant spending spree of "the father of our nation" Agreed, our nationals need to be housed comfortably to an acceptable standard but when you get reports like these (remember the Consulate in London?) I feel like we, (the taxpayer) are being sodomised (we pay PAYE) to the extreme.
There appears to be absolutely no review before these expenditures are committed (probably just rubber stamped) I mean, we have the money now (or do we?) so spend it - only the best, Super Premium, nothing less than "Blue" for our hard-working Trinis!!!
"Tighten yuh belts" / "Loosen it" What appears to be a case of an irresponsible adolescent getting his/her first credit card and buying everything in sight with no forethought as to future consequences of repayment. Their perception that everything, down to a drinking spree on the Boulevard or on the Avenue, is a good investment.
Come on, where is the responsibility, accountability and maturity? KNOHO
Remember the Consulate in
Remember the Consulate in London?
Er, no KNOHO. Do refresh our (my) memory.
From what I understand, the High Commission building in London had been allowed to fall into disrepair for many, many years. Whether some of our money had been allocated over the years to maintain the building and our money was spent elsewhere, only certain people can answer that question.
That said, it was reported last week Hasley Crawford had to approach the Ministry of Sport to carry out maintance on the building/stadium named after him... Brian Lara may never experience that 'problem' seeing as his stadium is yet to be finished! It was noted, that our government (past, past past, and current) seem to have grand plans of build, build, build; no 'maintenance' plans are built in, unless it is helicopters. But, I digress.
I do not recall how much the 'reported cost' of refurbishing the London High Commission was but, what I do know is that labour costs in London are not cheap and these buildings are not made out of 'louvres and wood panelling' but have intricate detail in the ceilings and when it comes to things like electrics and rewiring, they cannot get 'a friend' (in theory) to do it, but is has to be someone who is certified and meets certain UK (not Trinbago) governmental/professional body certification and these people do cost.
I also do not know the terms and conditions of the lease for the London High Commission but from what I do understand, there are certain buildings in/around the vicinity of the London HC that have to confirm to certain paint colour requirements. So, whilst I may chose to have a nice pastel colour, leasees of these type of buildings may have to use specific paints/colours as dictated by their leases and the London HC decorators may not have had the choice of using 'Penta'. Perhaps someone who does know this information may like to clarify...
La Diva
...is Calder selling houses
...is Calder selling houses all of a sudden?......
The PNM is the ultimate
The PNM is the ultimate price we have to pay because of the state of the opposition. Thanks Panday for this. He should have still been in government, but alas another fight and he lost seats in the government. I remembered when Panday said " I dont have to die in Government". My how things have changed.
Why do we have to blame Mr
Why do we have to blame Mr Panday and the state of the opposition for the PNM being in government? The PNM was in government before Mr Panday entered politics and probably would be there long after Mr Panday dies. The PNM is good at winning elections but cannot attract productive and intelligent people to run the country. However, people have the option to vote for other parties if they do not like the PNM or Mr Panday. They also have the option of not voting. Since there is a relatively high voter turnout at elections, and the PNM continues to win, we can only assume the the electorate is pleased with the PNM in power. Please do not blame Mr Panday or the state of the opposition!!!!!!
Mr Lee, Anything that could
Mr Lee, Anything that could make some sorta profit, Calder involved in. Way you from? Read de papers an watch de news on tv nah boy...
Note: 185 Sheppard Avenue
Note: 185 Sheppard Avenue West is in an upscale area of Toronto (in Uptown - not Mississauga or Brampton). It's interesting that the Consulate in on Sheppard Avenue EAST ..
At this time, many Governments are turning to LEASING office space, as they say they are not in the business of Building Maintenance. And here, the TnT Government is BUYING (must be an entire building to house their staff ??). This is craziness.. It would be another matter if the Consulate staff was representing TnT well in their foreign location. My 'contacts' tell me that service is quite another matter at the Toronto Consulate - long waiting times; very laid back staff; the impression that you are 'troubling' them when you make an inquiry. Sound familiar ?
I am all for making the consulate staff comfortable in their postings abroad, but are they working to match these perks ? The last I read was they they couldn't afford the price of rice in Toronto !!
Having said that, we in TnT also cannot afford the supermarket and housing prices. Mr. Manning, some relief here please. In my next life, I am definitely planning for a career in the Public Service, preferably in the Diplomatic Corps.
P.S. We also need to put Minister Hunte on this one - perhaps he can tell us about the maintenance plans / costs of this proposed purchase..
lahaina
lahaina
Note: 185 Sheppard Avenue West is in an upscale area of Toronto (in Uptown - not Mississauga or Brampton). It's interesting that the Consulate in on Sheppard Avenue EAST ..
As someone who is unfamiliar with Toronto, why is it interesting the residence/building is in 185 Sheppard Avenue West and the Consulate is on Sheppard Avenue EAST? Is it to do with the proximity?
La Diva
Agreed leasing this building
Agreed leasing this building makes more sense but your contact is wrong in terms of lengthy wait times or maybe I got lucky twice.
Wait times was approx. 10 minutes on both occasions, got my information in less than 2 weeks they said I'd have to wait 3 weeks, as for laid back staff since when making friendly conversations is considered laid back?
And to the Diva, I believe the OP is saying that housing cost is cheaper on the eastern side of the city and the consulate is also located on the eastern side of the city; why couldn't they find housing in the east....
I am minding my business but
I am minding my business but I would like to know if that money being spent in Canada and the USA could not have been spent on housing for the poor working class trinbagonians , for example , the poor people of Laventille ??? Home drums beat first , Mr.Manning !!!!
ATW - Barbados .
Yikes! Disagree #3! This is
Yikes! Disagree #3!
This is the third post I am disagreeing with for today. I did wakeup on the 'right side' of the bed this morning... I think.
I am minding my business but I would like to know if that money being spent in Canada and the USA could not have been spent on housing for the poor working class trinbagonians , for example , the poor people of Laventille ???
Er no. Overseas staff, if it is part of their contact/package, need decent accomodation too.
However! ATW, I think you should be asking if the money of Trinbago PLC that is being spent:
- Tarouba (yet to be finished in my lifetime) stadium (TT$700m 'last count and still counting');
- on ships (TT$ x billions);
- on helicopters (TT$2 billion);
- Prime Ministerial 'mansion' ($xxx millions);
- sending 90 Coast Guardmen to Australia (unless they sailed there or chartered a plane, think what the cost alone in airfares would have been!);
- any other unfinished project I have omitted;
... should that not be spent on local housing (for all, not just the 'poor'), medical care (look at the baby who has a gaping hole in her hand through negligence at a government hospital and is not healing), ground level crime!
Whilst I understand the concept of "if you look after your pennies, they will become TT$$" it is the big sums we really need to look at and not 'begrudge' the HC/embassy staff decent housing.
If there are 'quarrels' over the service levels/quality of service dispensed by the HC/embassy staff, that is for the Executive committee of Trinbago PLC (and by extension the people who they select to represent us overseas) to be held accountable for. There are Trinbagonians who want to give good service and represent their country well, but they are not being given that opportunity because of the vanguard and their nepotism/cronies.
La Diva
WHAT POOR WORKING CLASS
WHAT POOR WORKING CLASS YOU'RE SPEAKING ABOUT ? are there such a group in SUPER RICH , Trinidad and Tobago.
These Embassies and High
These Embassies and High Commissions are set up to handle administratiive issues of Trinidad and Tobago citizens living in foreign countries and therefore provide support to them. They are also set-up to provide assistance to businesses wanting to invest in our country. They are all part of diplomatic agreements between our country and others.
Trinidad and Tobago citizens in large staff these Embassies and High Commissions and therefore would require accommodation. Therefore the purchase of this building is, according to the report, to satisfy that. What is not stated by the reporter is how much money is spent on rental right now to justify the purchase of this property.
Is it better to continue rental or purchase? Without this information, I cannot make a judgment.
Furthermore, in relation to other comments, it sounds nice and is rather somewhat simple to equate the purchase this property and the alleviation of poverty in Laventille. They are not mutually exclusive. In fact the purchase of this property does not exclude any other issue. I believe that many arguments and too emotional - lacking thought, and seems to focus on political thinking of the writers than on a proper assessment of the issues.
Reading the comments, it would seem to me that the Embassies and High Commissions are of no use. They are expensive to maintain, but they also have benefits and one such benefit is trade between our country and others.
Let us not jump to conclusion.
My friend, this is serious
My friend, this is serious business, and sometimes, we do take liberties and have a little fun in the process. else we go mad. Our Embassies/Missions overseas are vital. I don't think most would say otherwise.
But when our gov't is out spending our money, we want to make certain that they are being responsible and ethical, and that we are getting the best value for our money.
Purchasing a residence for our Embassy staff in Toronto for a price tag of $4.25 million Canadian is a high price by all accounts.
The price tag for leasing vs that for this purchase should be a deciding factor also. But as one of our readers asked about the price of maintenance this too should also be a deciding factor. If we lease, we can negotiate for maintenance to be included; and maintenance in the City of Toronto is not cheap. The price of real estate in the City of Toronto, is among the highest in the country. Our gov't does not have a reputation for maintenance of their buildings, as we were reminded in a recent Editorial where detailed information was provided for us to read, and analyse for ourselves. They purchase, they build and turn their backs on maintenance and improvements until it is too late.
We are currently in a financial straight jacket in T&T, and would like to see expenditures conducted effectively and efficiently. The money from our gifts - oil and gas is falling, we are seeing our Treasury getting emptied, while we see our gov't operating with indifference.
We need accountability and transparency from our gov't, as it is our right to do so.
The points you raised were good ones, and you too have a right and responsibility to question the content of articles in the newspaper, and those raised by readers. I hope you never relinquish this right.
BASDEO PANDEY AND GANGA
BASDEO PANDEY AND GANGA SINGH. PROMISE. "WATER FOR ALL BY THE YEAR 2000" I recall those words by the same "CLOWN" called Pandey. We are in the year 2009 and he is telling the the government the country is in need of a proper water supply. Pandey could you tell us more about your broken promises and why you're trying to fool your supporters?
IPFreeley, if you take of
IPFreeley, if you take of your balisier blinkers and ask your self what achievent the Pandey administration made in 5 years in this area you will see it is significant. To go about making statements without using your inner mind is like " opening your mouth to confirm your status". It is not a question of Pandey or Manning, it is a question of real achievements. Think about this, look in the mirror and ask your self, "am I saying this to try and degrade someone or I am saying this because I believe so without the facts". Remember, oil price was neared $10 when Pandey was in office look at it now.... have a great afternoon
THERE IS A MYSTERY HERE! Let
THERE IS A MYSTERY HERE!
Let us be VERY clear about this article: it is at best sketchy and the good Minister is being quite misleading. For starters, the diplomatic staff CANNOT be 'housed' there - it is an office building, not a residential one. What she appears to mean is that the building will 'house' the offices of the Consulate, not provide living quarters for the staff. A close examination of the pictures of the exterior and interior of the building will support its unsuitability for residence (see link below). What is also NOT indicated in this article are the following troubling facts:
- the building was purchased one month AFTER the MLS listing expired on it
- the building was purchased at the FULL LIST PRICE of CAD$4.25 Million (so what - can no one in the GOTT negotiate a decent sale price in a depressed real estate market?)
- to read more and see pics of the building check this Toronto blog: http://jyoticommunication.blogspot.com/2009/09/t-buys-toronto-building-f...
Why Richard Lord did not ask the salient questions of the Minister is a mystery, since he is usually very dogged in his reporting. And what about the buildings in New York and in Washington? How much did they cost, and what was their list prices? Why all the secrecy?
Let the games begin...
Something is definitely
Something is definitely wrong here. I went to the page your referenced, and read the infomation by Jai Parasram. This does not look like a residential building at all. Are they planning to renovate it into 'lofts' or otherwise? I have more questions than I would like to raise here. Bottom line, our Minister Gopee-Scoon has been less than honest with her information. She is being cagey and at the end of the day disrespecting the people of this country. If she did not want to answer questions, then she should have been honest, and say "NO COMMENT". But to answer with words that are questionable is a disgrace. Why is it that our "PNM GOVERNMENT" insists on governing in secrecy. This is our country, they ae our employees. They are accountable to us.
I recommend that you go the web page referenced by "The Pilgrim" above. It's worth reading.
Jai Parasram is a reputable journalist, and I have no doubts about the accuracy of his info.
There goes our Heritage Fund
There goes our Heritage Fund which was established for generations to come!! Our Grand & great grands would be around to commit these PNM thieves to jail!!
Seems like they are planning
Seems like they are planning on purchasing a block of condos to accomodate their friends and relatives. Helicopters, luxury homes, lavish parties - hey T&T needed Royalty so they elected a King with all his servants - remember Papa Doc who lived in poverty and all the folks in Haiti lived in luxury or was it the other way around.