Tuesday February 9th, 2010
- Last update:6 hours 16 min ago
Retired judges facing hard times
Published: 22 Sep 2009
FROM LEFT: JJustice Zainool Hosein, Justice Jean Permanand, Justice Lionel Jones
Retired judges want a revision to their pension packages so they can survive. They want their pension packages to reflect today’s cost of living. Their pleas have fallen on deaf ears, so last week, six retired judges met with President George Maxwell Richards at President’s House. The retired judges say that increasing food prices, the cost of living, and the high cost of medicare, have pushed some of them close to poverty. “Some of these judges have high medical bills, but the pensions which they started receiving more than ten years ago, are just not enough to see them through,” a source close to the former judges added.
The T&T Guardian was reliably informed that the six judges held discussions with Richards, hoping to revive their first efforts ten years ago. The six judges were Justices Zainool Hosein, Clebert Brooks, Ivor Blackman, Lionel Jones, Jean Permanand and Ralph Narine. The source said the retired judges first made an effort to have their pension packages revised some ten years ago to the Basdeo Panday administration. When they thought that their recommendations would meet a favourable response, the 2001 general elections were held, resulting in the 18-18 tie. The following year, another election was held and the PNM won 20-16. The source said after Richards was appointed President in 2003, a delegation of retired judges met with him. “The President showed sympathy for us, and we really felt that our pleas would have fallen on someone’s ears,” the source added.
Four retired judges—Hosein, Brooks, Narine, and George Edoo (the former Ombudsman), met with Prime Minister Patrick Manning at his request, but their recommendations were turned down. Since then, the former judges have formed the Retired Judges Association, with a membership of just over 20. Since the start of their campaign, five of the judges died—James Davis, Harold Koylass, Gerard Des Iles, Richard Crane and Telesford Georges. The source pointed out that at a previous meeting with Richards, Georges came from Barbados to be part of the delegation. The source pointed out that judges lose when they retire.
The source added, “They no longer have drivers, and when they get old and sick, they cannot drive, so they are left to fend for themselves. They no longer have access to the Priority Bus Route, so they have to take the traffic, and as happened on more than one occasion, judges who presided in the criminal courts, have been abused and threatened by the criminal elements. They no longer have use to the VIP lounge at Piarco Airport.” The source continued, “Those facilities should never have been taken away. It is just a small group of retired judges, and it would not cost the government any significant amount. Added to that, retired judges cannot return to practice at the bar for ten years, that is unheard of anywhere else in the world.
YOU COULD IMAGINE
YOU COULD IMAGINE -
If retired Judges ketching they nennen. What happen to retired Government employees and Port Workers? Now Heartless in Parliament now want to finish kill off the retirees with property tax. What theses old people do this Government they don't realize they will be old one day. But they letting Heartless Hart spend out the money rather than give the old people their heritage. They are the ones who have us here. They are the ones who build this country and sacrificed so their children and grandchildren could have a better day. Now like pipers we thieving from them to satisfy our own greed.
Retired Judges - Could
Retired Judges -
Could someone out there answer these questions for me, please. I am ignorant of this issue, but have a lot of questions.
1) Age at Retirement?
2) Pension at retirement -
- Is this indexed to the cost of living? If not why not?
(increased on an annual basis)
3) Any type of benefits other than the basic pension $$?
4) On retiring - cannot practice for 10 yrs at the bar.
- Why?
- Who approved this and when?
- Was this inherited from Colonial Masters?
Thank you for any info. you can provide.
Gardenia
Gardenia, not sure if the
Gardenia, not sure if the 89th SRC Report is the most recent nor its current status re adoption or implementation, but the section under the Judiciary might at least give you some notions. See if you can access the link below. Maybe someone else might help with more up-to-date info.
http://www.cpo.gov.tt/docs/89th%20Report%20of%20the%20SRC.pdf
Judges are not the only ones suffering. There are some retired civil servants who retired some years ago who are receiving a lower pension than than those receiving the old age pensions, if they did not make the full number of NIB contributions in their working lives to receive the monthly $2,000 NIB retirement benefit. Now they will have to prove their impoverished condition to get some relief from those new property taxes.
Caution is the watch-word
Caution is the watch-word today.
Good Morning - Smile! It may be a tough day. It seems as though there are chef knives ready and waiting to go to work. Comprehend?
The link has denied me access. Happened once or twice in the past weeks. Not being a computer wiz, I may have done something in error. Will check when I have time. Thanks for trying to help.
Awhile back I know that this issue came up about retirees; but I guess no one bothered to fix it as they promised.
I got a feeling this 10yr ban came down from Colonial times. Are we expecting them to die before the 10yr. is over? This is the worst part of the retirement concerns. If they are able to work, they can do so even part-time; they can earn the money to supplement their pensions and would not have to demean themselves to go knocking on doors. From what I remembered from the last time around I think they do have some legitimate concerns. This whole pension thing in T&T is all over the place. I think I'll have to attend Pensions 101 at UWI to try and understand.
My dad worked at Petrotrin, and upon retirement he and my mom continued to received medical care. The month he died, my mom's health care ended. I could not figure this one out. But she is being taken care of.
But one thing for certain, the politicians got all theirs in tact, amended, etc.
The wages received today can somehow keep up with the high cost of living. But older folks, worked for a much smaller wage, resulting in smaller pensions which must be stretched to cover todays high cost of living. It is a vicious cycle.
This is an issue where cool heads must prevail when it is being discussed. I have heard all sides of this argument; some kind and sensible and some not so kind.
We are not alone in T&T. There are many others whose pensions are being stretched to the limit. People who planned and saved in Retirement Funds took a licking with this recession. My brother in the U.S. told me he lost appx. 30% of his fund's value, so did my sister. Those in Canada suffered the same.
But the fact remains that the older folks were the ones who worked and tried to make changes so that the younger ones can enjoy the benefits today. We must never forget that. Think I'll sit this one out, unless ...
Will live to fight another battle, another day.
Try accessing the link
Try accessing the link again, I got it but I can't go through the whole thing, I have to get ready for work, but with the levels of salaries seen, it means that these people are either greedy or did poor financial planning
Gardenia, again we benefit
Gardenia, again we benefit from that calm, cool head of yours, with balance and reason, drawing from your first hand knowledge and experience, and I'm not being cheeky.
Sorry you couldn'y pick up the website; I got it through Google which you can try.
Not long ago we read about the recommendations and new proposals for former Presidents, which might have been related to the rest of offices falling under the SRC. May require a bit of research to check, but this was in the newspapers not too long ago. Quite a generous package for them, I seem to recall, considering that the present (presidential) retirees do earn a number of pensions from past portfolios. I doubt we'll see any of them reduced to subsistence existence standing in a doubles queue. And hopefully, future presidents would come from a background where they would be in a financial position serving for the honour, not having to be servile to their political masters.
I seem to recall the precedent of a retired/resigned judge going back to private practice, something which was most frowned upon at the time. I refer to Justice Sonny Maharaj who famously jailed Pat Chokolingo for contempt, I believe for refusing to name a source. Since then a number of retired judges have been able to work both at home and/or abroad. (Eg: Integrity Commission, Bahamas etc). Apart from earning an extra income they are able to keep their minds exercised.
Coming back to Presidents, who knows? Maybe when the Constitution is re-written this might be a moot issue if and when the offices of president and prime minister are merged into one and the same with the self-appointment of an Executive President/Emperor For Life. But I digress and get ahead of myself, so I take my leave.
Please do consider throwing
Please do consider throwing your hat into the ring for the double-duty job. But first we have to depose the incumbent occupying that throne. You could be set for a life like Robin Hood and his Merry Men. Cheeky!
I take it I have your
I take it I have your support for nomination when I throw my hat into the ring? Problem is you can never please everybody when you are in public office; so you must have principles and let your conscience and good sense guide your actions. They say the head rules the man while the woman is ruled by her heart. I say a combination of head and heart is the better choice. And you don't have to be a hermaphrodite.
So the reporter couldn't at
So the reporter couldn't at least get the current pension figures for these individuals.
While I sympathise with any
While I sympathise with any person having trouble making ends meet, it baffles me to understand why should tax payers have to foot the expense when persons do not plan their retirement properly. Even the man on the steet knows that the returns on pension plans do not take inflation into account, and he makes adjustments. Many people tend to live above and beyond their means when their income is high, then they retire and want to continue on the same way. Everyone in Trinidad in treatened by criminal elements, yet we all cannot fit into the VIP lounge at Piarco, the PBR cannot support all our vechicles and we all have to deal with the traffic. Yes the former judges served the country well, as did the police, regiment, doctors, etc.
If judges ketching dey
If judges ketching dey nennen, what about 'regular' civil service employees, from clerical/admin to technical/medical?
The typical civil service worker lives on a 'month-to-month' basis and most times cannot afford their own housing (their salaries does not qualify them for even basic mortgages) much less 'private' retirement plans.
Jumbie's Watch
RETIRED JUDGES SUFFERING?
RETIRED JUDGES SUFFERING?
I am surprised to hear this. Here is a group of individuals who get almost the equivalent of their salaries as a pension. Many of them would have possibly been entitled to pensions from previous legal postings held, possibly at corporate level etc so there should be a good deal for them overall. I do believe though that dignitaries should be well treated, especially in old age, so I am quite surprised that there is not some sort of additional allowance for them. Having to drive with the masses and be a potential part of the accidents statistics of Trinidad and Tobago is worrying. High medical costs are a reality of twentieth century life and should be catered for integrally within the retirement package for these people.
While there may be a pressing need for review of such items it must be borne in mind that some lessons in money management and home economics and some of the prudence that they have spent their lives preaching to others about may be necessary too. It seems that these masters may have forgotten why they were appointed to be the masters in the first place!
It appears absurd for members of such a high profile group to be complaining about the high cost of living and it beggars the question "How do you think the rest of us survive?" Could you imagine what their plight would be if they took into consideration the newly proposed property taxes of 1, 3 or 5 percent? Oh Yes, I almost forgot, they need not worry about that, because the good minister assured us all that this was not going to be a tax on us but a tax on our property. Now why couldn't all of life's dilemmas be that easy to resolve?
Lately, everyone seems to be
Lately, everyone seems to be making overtures for better retirement plans to suit the current times.
This can only be a reflection on the bad running of our country, as I am quite sure that the retirees (I am one) all negotiated or was happy with their retirement plan at the time. While I do agree that retired Presidents, CoPs and Judges all get a fair deal, it should not be limited to just them. What about the retiree who does not have a voice?
http://dsaltsman.blogspot.com/
Epson - You jest, my
Epson - You jest, my boy:-
And you don't look a day over '29 and counting'!
Union negotiating your package - pay, benefits, pensions .. you must have been in 'oil'.
You see a lot of retirees, as they walked out of their employer's door, have the face the grim reality of what was negotiated many years prior, when the country was kinder and gentlier. Let the young talk .. their turn will come .. and I tell you this, they are not going to enjoy their retirement on a silver platter. See what happened world wide with this 'recession' we had - many lost everything, or almost .. Some have been left standing there with only their 'underpants' on, so to speak.
Keep smiling..
Trinidad and Tobago a
Trinidad and Tobago a country without pity for it's citizens. Imagine the plight of Judges in this oil rich country.It really doesn't matter what one does to elevate the image of the country they will be ignored when they can't be used anymore.Clive Bradley comes to mind. Jean Miles a true patriot was discarded at the end. There are others but those two will suffice.
If the judges who are educated men and women are finding it tough to survive. What about the other citizens? Yet millions are spent every year on different projects. Yet the roads are a disaster. In 2009 when rain falls there are floods all over the country including the city. Port of Spain.Water shortage is par for the course when it's needed.Crime has spiral out of control with no end in sight. No wonder Ato Boldon has cast his lot with ABC and ESPN here in the US.He knows where loyalty really lies. He is treated with the utmost respect and he makes six figures a year(US) currency which is multplied by six at home.At the end he will get a huge bonus and pension when ever he wraps it up. He obviously has dual citizenship which will entitled him to another huge social security from the US government and medicare at 65 which covers most of his medical needs at private hospitals and private doctors.Ato Bolden is an example of knowing which side hie "bread is buttered" You devote your life and talent to the country and they kick you later on in life when you really need support.
Prince, thanks for th
Prince, thanks for th link.
We can see that current entitlements are as follows:
President - $49,500 per month + other major entitlements !!
Appeal Judge - $33,800 per month + major entitlements !!
These are not figures to turn up your nose at. Did I mention, salaries are NON TAXABLE. They were also entitled (while employed) to low-interest vehicle loans; telephone allowance; drivers etc. Where did de money go, we should ask ?
I agree, judges and others with that type of stature should be the first to understand that Retirement involves some forward financial planning. The average person does not expect to retire with the same lifestyle as she/ he had in younger years.
I cannot say for certain what their pensions are, but were they increased along with the President's recently ?
All in all, I think we need to understand some of the finer points of the pensions paid to the judges, before assuming they are all in dire financial straits. As well, when they retired, they could have opted into a private medical plan.
The reporter should have helped us out with these important and much needed details.
Gardenia, you are most
Gardenia, you are most welcome. I am glad that you took the time to extract some of the figures for the benefit of other bloggers. In the case of retired presidents, unless I'm mistaken, on top of the other retirement perks, their pension is the same as their salary, and tax-free to boot. I'm thinking about applying for the job when Maxie does the honourable thing. At least I think I'll do a better job of it, and I would even be willing to take a 50% cut in salary seeing the current state of the Treasury and be prepared to give up my royal title. Remember how our first president gave up the "Sir" when he became the First President of the Republic, but as soon as he demitted office, he took it back? I could always cite precedent.
Take care now.
Lahaina, you are very
Lahaina, you are very welcome. Happy to see you did the research for the benefit of the others. Maybe the reporters are too busy or too.... or maybe over-worked or in a plain hurry. It can happen; just like my mistake earlier: my apologies for addressing you as Gardenia who earlier had difficulty accessing the website & in my hurry, I thought she had then succeeded. Hope you (and she) didn't mind my gaffe. Take care now.
Surely, there is no need to
Surely, there is no need to rap your knucles.
This subject sure gets the mind working over-time.
Don't think LAHAINA felt slighted. 'Friends don't hold grudges.'
Thanks for the reassurance.
Thanks for the reassurance. Sometimes the ladies can be touchy, and I don't mean touchy-feely.
We may not all be
We may not all be "ladies".
I can still feel the kicks to the shins, and elbows to the gut!
lol! Gardenia
lol! Gardenia
I guess there must be something either in your 'name' or the way that you post rationally and politely (^_~) that had The Prince, I and perhaps others, thinking you were female!
La Diva
Am I missing something here?
Am I missing something here?
My dear friends, those of us
My dear friends, those of us who have not yet retired please take note and for God sake save more, spend less and learn how to invest wisely. If you don't know where to turn check out this site: www.FinancialCoachingCentre.com
Now you are confusing us.
Now you are confusing us. Whom to believe? Our visionary oracle just advised us to loosen our belts, not too long after he told us to tighten them, even if you trousers already started falling down. Then he come now and tell us to fast like our Muslim brothers & sisters, that it good for us. Do as I say, but don't do as I do. Sounds familiar?
Save for the fact that these
Save for the fact that these retired judges are precluded from returning to the practice of law a limitation that can only be described as stupid, welcome your honour to the world or real people, that you cannot have the privilege of sitting in the VIP lounge of the airport or access to the Priority Bus Route speaks more about your need for status than for justice for all. Is the symbol of your profession not that of a scale denoting justice and equality for all! Expand your concerns to society at large and maybe then you will have the sympathy of the general public.
Are all those allowances
Are all those allowances taxable? If not what are they doing with their money? Even if they are taxable, for professionals they do not have any financial sense. I am indeed sorry for them but then when I look at old people who only receive their Old Age Pensions and make do with it, my sympathies are ill-placed.
Rik Hansel