Tuesday February 9th, 2010
- Last update:15 hours 9 min ago
Four Barrackpore men die after curried meal
Published: 3 Nov 2009
LEFT: Brenda Jugmohan, widow of Ramdeo Jugmohan, recall her last moments with her husband.
RIGHT: Rita Ramroop, speaks yesterday about her brother-in-law Mahadeo Roopchand. PHOTOS: RISHI RAGOONATH
Police are working on a theory that four Barrackpore men drank pommerac wine and ate a meal of curried chicken and rice, laced with thinners before their deaths. The four friends collapsed and died after ingesting a poisonous substance during a Sunday lime at Barrackpore. Last night, homicide detectives were trying to find out the exact circumstances of the deaths of Winston Seelal, 55, Nazim Mohammed, 40, Mahadeo Roopchand, 40, and Ramdeo Jugmohan, 49. Seelal and Roopchand, both of Rampersad Trace, were found lying in foetal positions next to each other on the floor of Seelal’s wooden and galvanised home. Jugmohan, of Ramsingh Trace, was found lying face down in a drain about 50 feet away in Seelal’s yard, while Mohammed, of Debie Trace, was found in a fig patch about 100 feet away.
Police said their fingers and toes were curled inward and they were vomiting and frothing from their mouths before they died. Villagers, who saw the men lying on the ground, believed, initially, that they were drunk. However, a call was made to the police, who responded and realised that the men were dead. Jugmohan’s widow, Brenda, said she did not know how the friends died. “I find it strange that this happened to them, because my husband was a good man. He did not have any enemies.” The weeping widow said Jugmohan was fasting, as they were supposed to have Hindu prayers on November 17. “I can’t say what went wrong. All I know is that we got a call, and when we got there he was lying in a drain and gasping for breath.”
Brenda said Jugmohan was taken to San Fernando General Hospital, and attempts were made to pump out fluid from his lungs. However, she said he died 15 minutes later. Two doctors who treated Jugmohan also fell ill, Brenda said. Daughter Raquel Bassant said she passed by Seelal’s home around 10.40 pm and saw him and another man lying on the ground. “We thought they were drunk and lying around. But I did not know my father was there,” Bassant cried. Seelal’s brother, Reynold, said he saw the men drinking and liming on Sunday evening. Reynold said Seelal was a chronic drug user, but never interfered with anyone.
“He using drugs about 30 years now. He used to work at the Ministry of Works, but he using drugs. His wife and children left and he stopped working.” Roopchand’s sister-in-law, Rita Ramroop, said he worked as a welder and did not lime often with Seelal. Meanwhile, homicide detectives said they found no evidence of insecticide or weedicide at the scene of the crime. However, they seized several glasses containing home-made pommerac wine and a bottle of thinners, used for painting. Autopsies will be done today at the Forensic Sciences Centre. Cpl Peter Ramdeen and Insp Archie, of San Fernando Homicide Bureau, are continuing investigations.
'Rum 'til I die' syndrome,
'Rum 'til I die' syndrome, suicide, homicide or accidental death? A thorough forensic investigation should uncover the cause of death. People will never learn that excessive drinking is always destructive. The sorry tale above describes an alleged habitual drug user among the dead. This may or may not be relevant to the cause of death. 'Judge not lest ye be judged'. Condolences.
ajfyzabadbutlertown
THIS MIGHT WELL BE SUCH
THIS MIGHT WELL BE SUCH -
I notice in T&T you could write negative insinuations about Indians. Like gramazone was called Indian tonic. You could write negative things about Africans, lack of fathers and black youth killing black youth. But GOD forbid, write about white people and how seldom they are charged locally for drugs, but are always held abroad, or about no one being charged for white collar crime. You immediately get a reaction like you must not talk about white people in a negative light. The sociology in T&T is very interesting.
Someone has killed three
Someone has killed three men, if it is a stranger or one of the three time will tell.
Fairplay you are talking sense and notice how one of the bloggers has thrown the blame right back on you, it is you who are stigmatising.
But every word of your commentary is true.
We just had a policeman who was beaten by some of those "WHITE BOYS" with a baseball bat while off duty. Let us see what becomes of that. It is ironic that in England you cannot talk about minority races, yet in our home we are vilified by our own each and everyday.
Blatant racisism on one or the other group is encouraged and on some of these assanine radio stations you can hear the "Talk Show Hosts" encouraging people to say that they will not employ people of african descent because they are not submissive enough and do not want to work.
The implication there is that one section is submissive and will take all excreta thrown at them while the other will steal the money and leave that behind.
SHAME on the people. Shame on this country for allowing all of that,SHAME for the majority of the poor people who still think that they must worship shades of skin, Shame for those who send abroad for a white man to cure all our ills. All the peole in TRINBAGO ARE BLACK but some of them have straight hair and some have afro hair. Ask the Englishman.
I believe the article said
I believe the article said four men died.... not three, and on that note to this specific comment,
"Shame for those who send abroad for a white man to cure all our ills"
You should direct this comment at Mr Manning & Mr Panday among others, since it was reported one ah dem recently went to "England" for ah check up eh!!
WHAT ABOUT THE ONE
WHAT ABOUT THE ONE -
Who does go up by the white people to lecture. You seem not to know about that one eh.
SHADE SKIN PREJUDICE
SHADE SKIN PREJUDICE -
DINAH
Shade skin prejudice is alive and well in T&T. I know from my own family experience. I come from a family that consists of Africans, Indians, Chinese and Whites. My great-grandmother who was a dark skinned bajan who I have very loving memories of preferred her light skinned straight nosed grand children. You could imagine the mixed emotions I had; it was a love hate relationship. I loved her but I hated that she was prejudiced against her own grand-children. She was indoctrinated by her religious beliefs and social experiences. The negative sociological impact to her darker skinned grand-children and great grand’s is apparent even till today. Regrettably I was one of her favourites and share some guilt in this regard. The Willie Lynch Syndrome is a well documented social conditioning methodology and is still widely used.
'Judge not lest ye be
'Judge not lest ye be judged'. - But isn't that what you just did in your short but biting commentary?
Amir I have to agree with
Amir I have to agree with SaDTrini on this one.
Doh take him on
Doh take him on -
He couldn't get wet if it RAINED brains.
He so hung up on race, expect little in the way of progress from his posts.
From the reports it seems like these unfortunate men had an unwanted ingredient mixed in while they were doing their cook-up. How paint thinners got in the food could well be the mistake that cost these 4 men terribly. Condolences and sympathies to the families. This is indeed tragic.
While I totally respect
While I totally respect every single one of you, it's obvious to anyone, living in Trinidad, especially those of us who can't get wet with 'brain rain', that alcoholism is a serious, deadly issue, especially, but not solely, among rural Indo Trinidadians. And I'm not talking about the people of take an occasional drink,I'm talking about people who drink every day and are dependent on alcohol.
If people want to bury their brain in the sand and not face the reality and simplistically treat the comment made by me in the context of race and ethnicity, then, hard luck. Yes, I emphasize, alcoholism is a chronic problem among some East Indians particularly in rural Trinidad and it don't take 'brains' to figure that out. Rum didn't kill these people, but it sure contributed to how they met their death. And, by the way, I'm not that callous not to be sympathetic toward the families of those who died.
Respect to you all.
ajfyzabadbutlertownes
So true, thought I was the
So true, thought I was the only one that noticed that, but I guessed not.
I agree with you on that
I agree with you on that one.
It's interesting how some people will take a already sad situation and twist it into something even more ugly..
Check the subject of the
Check the subject of the thread.
And we on about a white policeman beating 3 boys.
I not saying don't talk about it... but oh god man, it has its time and place.
Get it right,The blogger
Get it right,The blogger said off duty policeman beaten by 3 white boys,and yes it's off thread.But ,whilst i have'nt heard of this incident,it make think of Howard Beach Ny a couple years where a young Black youth (if am not mistaken a Trini)was beaten by a mob of white men with baseball bats and was subsequently was run over and killed by a motor vehicle,whilst fleeing his attacks.
Songs farmilar,huh?I do hope though that such an incident did not occur.so until i have the facts I would reserve a comment on it.However their has been a certain trend of instances of blatant racism intigated by this group of people in the pass e.g.night clubs in St Anns not allowing Indo and Afro Trinidadians in.Pretty disturbing won't you say?
Sincere apologies
Sincere apologies -
My mistake, you are correct: policeman beaten by 3 white boys while off duty.
Still grossly off topic, but is it really necessary to inject race everywhere into everything? Here in this country we do NOT have issues as bad as that. As long as religious and political leaders leave people to themselves, as was the case a little more than a decade ago, Trinidadians and Tobagonians got along very very well. Look how I an all contributing to irrelevance... again, my apologies.
Sad,but true,It a reflection
Sad,but true,It a reflection of our society today.Whilst,as you say Trinbagonians get along very well,When one hear of attacks such as the aforementioned (if true),it's cause for concern.Incidents such as this should not happen nor be tolerated.
It's intersting to know though,how did the thinners end up in the pot?
Who could say? One person
Who could say? One person (jocularly??) suggested that Trinis like to mix all kinda ting in they pot. It could also have been that it got spilled in accidentally at some point. The autopsies will best tell.
Indeed sad
Indeed sad
It's intersting to know though,how did the thinners end up in the pot?
Purely spectulation at this point, but it could be the bottles/containers of thinners were not properly labelled and someone thought it was water/coconut water? It could be someone who was 'sleep drunk' (as in lacking in sleep and bone tired) meant to pick up another container but picked up the thinners instead? I myself have experienced such intense tiredness that I have picked up things to brush my teeth with, that have no business with brushing teeth or being ingested! But, I caught myself just in time.
Sadly, the how/why may never be known.
La Diva
The smarter the journalists are, the better off society is. For to a degree, people read the press to inform themselves-and the better the teacher, the better the student body. Warren Buffet
Or maybe "just drunk".It was
Or maybe "just drunk".It was a lime and I'am sure they wern't drinking Lemonade.However what ever the cause of death it's a tragedy,condolences to the families.
Even if it was a lime
Even if it was a lime
That the bottles (am assuming) of thinner were in the proximity, in the first place?
In any event, it is sad.
La Diva
The smarter the journalists are, the better off society is. For to a degree, people read the press to inform themselves-and the better the teacher, the better the student body. Warren Buffet
Marchalis do you even live
Marchalis do you even live in this country or are you just selective with what you read? Here in Trinbago we do not have issues as bad as that.? This happenedon the road to Chaguramas about two weeks ago late night early morning. Do you even live in this country? Get a GRIP
Lady, what the hell you
Lady, what the hell you talking about??? -
What that have to do with 4 men dying from food poisoning???? It RAINING irrelevance today?????
TRINIBAGONIANS NATURAL
TRINIBAGONIANS NATURAL TENDANCY IS TO HIDE -
DINAH
Trinbagonians natural tendency is avoidance, we sweep it under the carpet. Racial Discrimination, Homosexuality, Incest, White Collar Crime and the possibility of Drugs Financing Political Parties come to mind. As president Obama says, we should use these as teachable moments and not be afraid to discuss them fairly and frankly. We need to come to teams with these issues as they are both rampant and hiding them won't make them go away. We all know that they take place in the higher echelons of our society. Maybe if they weren’t we would talk about them.
THREADS ARE FREESTYLING
THREADS ARE FREESTYLING -
If a blogger raises an issues one can respond, the blog police and control freaks want to tell everyone what to think when to think. How to blog or when to blog. How to vote and who to vote for. We are sorry to hear of the plight of the gentlemen but the sociology of their deaths and the media and societal responses are worthy of discussion. I find it rude and out of place for anyone to take it upon themselves to direct other bloggers. I have on many occasions seen said bloggers digress when convenient to do so and I chose not to be a nuisance by bringing it up. I have seen many try to dissuade said bloggers about their use of language and personal attacks. One blogger even asked that there be no responses to her blogs by some individuals, to which they refused. On one occasion said blogger responded so personally to me and with such venom it had to be flagged. No one will tell me how to blog or when to blog. No one will tell me how to vote or who to vote for. No one will tell me what to think or how to think. To the CONTROL FREAKS T&T is still a free country, where freedom of speech is allowed. You all are dammed farce and out of place.
Fairplay, double thumbs up
Fairplay, double thumbs up on this one. Yes, I'm in total agreement with your sentiments about free speech. And bloggers doh even have to agree with one another's opinion all the time or at all, for that matter!! Long live free speech.
ajfyzabadbutlertown
Mr. Fairplay, Sir,
Mr. Fairplay, Sir, Freedom.
I felt those 'slings and arrows'.
I certainly agree that with freedom of speech, thought and expression comes responsibility as we live in a civilised society.
Very enlightening!
Some Trinis mix things into
Some Trinis mix things into foods when cooking that really have no business being in food! I remember first hand a gentleman putting a "rusty nail" in a pot when cooking meat saying "it go soften the meat"....I'm sure there might other experiences out there also. Hope thats not the case here (foreign object), but it sounds like it might be.
Seems being a chronic drug
Seems being a chronic drug user, and being drunk until you fall down and sleep on the ground is normal... until someone realized that didn't happen and the people dying.
Methanol in the home made
Methanol in the home made wine. Home made spirits such as wine and rum can contain alot of methanol instead of ethanol,as the alcohol,if not fermented properly. Methanol kills and is not for drinking as oppose to ethanol which is the drinkable alcohol. Just a thought.
Trini in Fl.
This seems to be the most
This seems to be the most plausible explanation. Thanks for the info. It sheds much needed light on this subject.
My goodness...I read this
My goodness...I read this story with sorrow, especially for the family of the deceased, aware of how quickly and easily one can make a mistake in the preparation of food and drink. How many of us have used salt instead of sugar and vice versa. Unlabelled bottles of liquid should never ever be kept in a kitchen or food preparation area.
Then all of a sudden it seemed that I had somehow jumped into another story, totally irrevelent to this one. What the heck does racial equality or lack thereof have to do with this story? It may be a valid topic for debate but surely is inappropriate when the story concerns the death of individuals, and believe me, death has no hangups when it comes to race or social station in life.
"What the heck does racial
"What the heck does racial equality or lack thereof have to do with this story?"
Absolutely nothing.
It's just the way many posters here rationalize everything.
WHO THE HELL DECIDES
WHO THE HELL DECIDES RELEVANCE -
There are many dimensions to a topic. Five persons would do a thesis or write an essay on a topic and approach it from a different angle and all would pass their exams. Some may concentrate on the crime aspect, some on the media responses to crime; some may see the political dimension and others yet the sociological and economic ramifications. Only in fascist states are these freedoms restricted. Power to the people, we will resist all FACISTS and CONTROL FREAKS. Freedom of thought, freedom of expression, freedom of religion, and freedom of choice is enshrined in our constitution. . FREE AT LAST THANK GOD WE ARE FREE AT LAST.
Doh get tie up. You STILL eh
Doh get tie up.
You STILL eh free.
Dimensions, angles and aspects... yeah all right here.
I still trying to figure out how going from
"Four Barrackpore men die after curried meal"
to
"off duty policeman who was beaten by some of those "WHITE BOYS""
to
"My great-grandmother who was a dark skinned bajan who I have very loving memories of preferred her light skinned straight nosed grand children. You could imagine the mixed emotions I had"
could help this tragic situation to be avoided so that people won't be poisoned again like this. I dunno, maybe there should be a lobby that dark skinned bajans don't cook curry for straight nose white boys in Barrackpore because a policeman will cause mixed emotions when off duty?
Still though, total support for free speech... long live it.
A TOTAL DISTORTATION OF MY
A TOTAL DISTORTATION OF MY VIEWS -
You conveniently cut and paste parts of my contribution to try and ridicule what I was trying to say, that is dishonest. It is as if I conclude that four men died so all we should do is express our condolences. I realize from the pros and cons of the discussion it is more nuance than that. I would not copy your simplistic attempt to misrepresent your views. To emphasize
1) The discussion was about a suspected crime.
2) There are many dimensions to the crime problem.
3) Bloggers are not limited to any particular style in discussing the crime problem or any other.
4) In reporting in the media there are interesting differences in reporting crime based on the demographics.
5) People’s reactions to reports differ depending on the Class/Race. A greater sensitivity is given to some of a particular Class/Race.
6) Trinbagonians avoid discussing certain subjects, Crime and Race, and the Social impact. White collar crime and Drug Kingpins are seldom prosecuted. The crime of Drug Money financing Political parties is overlooked.
7) Social conditioning has an effect on people’s self esteem. Low self esteem is co-related to crime.
8) The reference to my experience was to personalize social conditioning, and not to accept or trivialize the negative aspects.
I hear you. Points taken.
I hear you. Points taken.