Sport Ministry staff protests new entry system...

Thumb scan put on hold

Published: 12 Nov 2009

The controversial fingerprinting recognition
system at the Ministry of Sport and Youth Affairs

A fingerprinting-recognition system for employees to enter the Ministry of Sport and Youth Affairs on Abercromby Street in Port-of-Spain has been put on hold after complaints by staff. This was confirmed yesterday by industrial relations officer of the Public Services Association (PSA) Emerson Martin, during a phone interview. “We can’t agree with this system of fingerprinting. It infringes on people’s identity. We consider that system illegal,” he said. Martin said the Ministry of Sport started to test-run the fingerprinting system on Monday without consulting the staff and the PSA. He added that the system was supposed to replace the signing in by public officers.

“This violates the terms and conditions of the collective agreement...Although, we know that it is law that public servants must sign in when they come to work,” he said. Martin said that the implementation of this system has caused fear among staff members. “This caused panic among the staff,” he said. He said the staff of the Ministry of Sport would have preferred others options like using a swipe card system.

Martin said union representatives met yesterday with acting Permanent Secretary Ashwin Creed, who assured them that the system would be put on hold. “The acting Permanent Secretary told us that it would be put on hold,” Martin said. “Word also got back to Minister of Sport Gary Hunt that the staff was unhappy with that new system,” he said. Martin said the next step would be that the union would write a letter to Permanent Secretary Margaret Farray who was supposed to return to office next week.

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This is nothing short of a

This is nothing short of a backwards people refusing to advance. The rest of the developed world is using biometrics for positive ID and to grant access to controlled or secured areas, not to mention its application in solving crime. These same people who are concerned about their "identity" are not concerned when they have to provide fingerprints and iris scan for entry into western countries.

True.. you don't hear them

True.. you don't hear them complaining when they have to do it to get through the US border control. What is there to fear about this system if all precautions have been taken to protect your data... What exactly is the infringement?.. Someone help me, I don't see it. Maybe some employees (or crooks) have something to hide and afraid they get caught out. Just maybe??...

Complaining for the sake of

Complaining for the sake of complaining. I guess Union people have to justify their pay somehow.

Start excluding the noise-makers and when they come back, initiate iris scanning too!!

rayklum would this finger

rayklum
would this finger printing be only for Government Offices????????or for all Business????????Again who are we trying to fool!Running away from work is a normal thing for Public Servants they always on Lunch

'Running away',Time off

'Running away',Time off being resisted here?

Rules of thumb in the public, police, fire, teaching services and other government offices are coming late to work and signing in an early time and 'stepping out'- taking time, often for a substantial part of the day (called: 'running away') or to do private or other personal business. You'll be amazed at how many government employees have practically full-time businesses, using 'runaway' time to conduct same!!!

How often have you gone to a gov. office, school, police station, licensing office etc to conduct business only to be told 'so-and-so officer stepped out' or 'he on lunch (at 2 0'clock!)'. Right now parents at ASJA Primary are protesting against a teacher on sick leave, although this is a different industrial matter unrelated to signing in to work.

Whilst I agree that a certain amount of invasion of privacy was done without permission, it's my humble view that the greater fear is that people would have had to be on the job for 8 solid hours (not necessarily productively!!, but there, nevertheless). Some years ago an attempt was made to introduce the 'clocking in' system whereby the gov. employee would have 'clocked in' a card. This too was met with strong resistance, possibly for the reason that employees can't 'runaway'.

At one and the same time, there are many decent government workers who are dedicated and conscientious, who are punctual and regular and who put in a decent day's work in all the services mentioned above. Due praises to them.

Is it possible that most gov. employees who would find this move objectionable are the 'runaway artists' and the people who thrive on a system which is lax, in a society where one is accustomed to reporting for 'work' early and leaving for home or business shortly thereafter, much like URP?

ajfyzabadbutlertown

Very True. I agree 100%.

Very True. I agree 100%.

You could not of said

You could not of said anything better.What a collection of idiots.Their next move is..we dont any computers..bring back the Copy Book.

This is nothing short of a

This is nothing short of a lazy employee who doesnt want to come to work, so he gets his co-worker to sign his name or swipe his card for him.

Technology at work. I think

Technology at work.

I think that all ministries should implement this system to control absenteeism in the workplace.

Many civil servants don't even work a full day and some just don't show up at all and expect to be paid, while they hide behind the trade unions.

This is one instance where I think that taxpayers' money was well spent by Minister Gary Hunt.

http://dsaltsman.blogspot.com/

Hopefully it can be used for

Hopefully it can be used for the police and army also.

epsomsalts

epsomsalts

I disagree. See my comments below. (^_^)

What is to say that someone does not make a cast of their finger, recreate and give it to a 'padner' to sign them in or not?

There was a movie where the eyeball of the President was being used as the biometric for detonating some bomb or defence system or the other (I think it was?) was recreated and implanted into the bad guy's eye. Hollywood? Yes, perhaps, but life does imitate art/film...

This is one instance where I think that taxpayers' money was well spent by Minister Gary Hunt.

Would you say the same, if you heard the technology costs several hundred million? (^_~) No idea how much the system cost so please do not start quoting me!

La Diva

The smarter the journalists are, the better off society is. For to a degree, people read the press to inform themselves-and the better the teacher, the better the student body. Warren Buffet

Dey brakesing over breaks

Dey brakesing over breaks

Let's get right to it, some workers vex cause they put in a cyar fool them anymore system. They don't care where they put their finger when they ready, USA finger does work when they travel. They have a finger for everything but you see that work finger, it shy.

Ah mean, I was here all the time since .., what ! like you don't believe me. Look just ask meh pardner dey, he go tell you, he bound to know, cause he sign in for me as meh hands was full when ah reach yes. Right family.

This biometric system is multifunctional monitoring time and person. Nothing new here, only now staff are more aware that taking cigarette breaks, coming to work late break, buss it to check out lady friend break, extra long lunch break and not turning up to work break will be on a monitoring system.

For some, work does interfere with their breaks.

What will happen when they put a finger scan to enable them to log on to their computer cause passwords still sharing?

Time for them to get their work finger out and put it on the button.

The reason the staff object

The reason the staff object to have their finger print scanned is they are up to no good. There is absolutely no infringement in the human rights or any other rights they can think of to object to using the scanner. It is Trini tradition to object to anything and everything. The finger print scanner will stop them cheating by coming in late, leaving work early or taking days off. With the scanner you have to be at work in person, with other methods you can cheat and / or your colleagues will help you cheat. This type of scanner should be written in to every government employees contracts, they don't agree then no job. We are plagued with poor service in government departments, the staff arrive late, leave early. These machines are absolutely necessary and should be installed in all government offices immediately.

This is a good example of

This is a good example of the ignorance of the people of this country. This is a good example of the impedement that the authorities face with the fight against crime. Does your "ID" card not infringe on your privacy? A finger print at the work place that will protect you from intruders is an infringement, and the good unions are behind this folly.

"Print do not match you cannot get in". Do not complain when you get heldup in the office next time. Simpleton

No, progress is not for this place we do not want it and if you dislike who is introducing it that makes it all the more justifiable. Who will change the idiotic mindset of my people and how long will it take.
On the other hand there might be some wanted persons up ther who do not have their finger print taken.

Sledgehammer to crack

Sledgehammer to crack walnut?

'The jury is still out' on this one for me.

Yes, I can understand the rational for being fingerprinted or for IRIS recognition as part of SECURITY. Whilst it may not 'exactly' be an "infringement of personal identity", I do have problems with having to give finger prints to confirm whether 'clocked in' or out'.

Places I have worked in the past all used the swipe cards AND we also had to show the card to a member of the security team on entering so that they could see the photo matched the face - and it was not someone randomly finding the card or 'lending' the card for someone to swipe in and out. Additionally, the card was needed to exit the building - no turnstiles. Perhaps it may be that the places I have been expected staff to be responsible and reliable?

However, it boggles my mind that it is only NOW that the news is getting to Minister Hunt that the staff are unhappy with the proposed new system? This suggests (once again) somehow, somewhere, that money has been spent and the 'solution' provided as a fait accompli...?

I would very much like to give Minister Hunt the benefit of the doubt, but with this coming so fast on the heels of the TT$2 million (and counting) flag and all the various incomplete sports stadia, out of curiosity, I would like to know how much this technology/system cost, who the suppliers are and what procurement or tendering process was used.

La Diva

The smarter the journalists are, the better off society is. For to a degree, people read the press to inform themselves-and the better the teacher, the better the student body. Warren Buffet

La Diva I totally agree with

La Diva I totally agree with your comment. Thumb print recognition at the Ministry of Sport? Is that Ministry now " FORT KNOX"? What about the Treasury and highly sensitive areas of national security - the police stations, don't we need to know who is "manning" the station as they are paid to do - what about thumb print recognition on the new electronic passports,and for teachers - to determine who walked in and signed the register and then walked out to run "ah PH"?

The British High Commission in T&T uses full ten fingerprint recognition anytime they grant a visa, why can't we do the same when we issue a passport?

If there is to be thumb print recognition for employees to be able to enter the Ministry of Sport, then it should be as a matter of government policy for all Ministries and government offices.

And tell me, what is going to happen to the thumb print database when the employee leaves the employ of the Ministry? How secure will it be when the employee is employed there?

Wait nah man, the Ministry

Wait nah man, the Ministry put this thing on hold? I can't believe this. After they do all the research, spend a ton of money on new technology, implement it, the workers veto the thing? Tail wagging the dog again?

THERE IS A PROCEDURED

THERE IS A PROCEDURED -

There is a procedure to be followed when implement change in a unionised organization. The union was not against the change but the lack of full disclosure and consultation. In fact initially they agreed to one thing but were presented with something else.

Yeah man, no more running

Yeah man, no more running away unless yuh leaving yuh thumb wid yuh padna to scan in fuh yuh!!!

Jumbie's Watch

This is not border control

This is not border control this the ministry of sport. What happened to the time when there was a receptionist who (mostly) knew by sight all legitimate employees. You still have to deal visitors. If you wnat to got high-tech you could use RFID.

Come on people and get with

Come on people and get with the times.. The increased security is for YOUR OWN protection and safety. Canada has very stringent privacy laws and this form of biometric is commonly used for entry into secure areas.

Furthermore, the system does not store a person's actual fingerprint. It uses a mathematical algorithm, which may vary depending on the manufacturer, and stores certain properties which are unique to the individual's thumb. In other words, the data which is stored by the biometric reader cannot be used for any other purpose than to open the door lock and to record the time of entry.

trinican Come on people and

trinican

Come on people and get with the times.. The increased security is for YOUR OWN protection and safety. Canada has very stringent privacy laws and this form of biometric is commonly used for entry into secure areas.

Now I am REALLY having a 'pink moment' aka am confused! (^_^) Unless I am mistaken, or missed something...

1 - This is the Ministry of SPORT and YOUTH AFFAIRS, not the Ministry of Defence or Ministry of NATIONAL SECURITY.

2 - It is the Ministry of SPORT and YOUTH AFFAIRS, unless it is the 'front' for some high fuluting, top secret, superduper project that we have not been informed about and therefore needs this form of biometric security system.

3 - What is wrong with swipe cards, that you have to use to gain access/exit? What is wrong with having a procedure whereby the security/receptionist is under strict orders not to allow exit/entry to anyone who is not in possession of their swipe card? One building I worked in would make employess who did not have their swipe card on them sign a book and issue a TEMPORARY pass that would expire at midnight. This was as much a security as well as health and safety (to know who was in the building at all times). If someone is then suspected of skylarking, then the same computer records can be pulled. You cannot then play you were in, when the records show you never swiped in the first place. All of the above could be made a matter of 'disciplinary action'...

By extension, an argument can also be made for this biometric technology to be extended to visitors to the banks/financial institutions for the SECURITY of staff and visitors...

Additionally, an argument can also be made to have this technology to be had at the Office of the Prime Minister. If you recall, 'not so long ago' an unidentified person approached/gained access to Mrs Manning and told her there was to be an assasination attempt on the Prime Minister's life. Perhaps if this same biometric technology was in place, that 'unidentified person' could have been identified?

What about Parliament? What is to say that the security cannot be compromised there, YET again?! Who knows who is entering/exiting that building?

I still think it is a sledgehammer to crack a walnut, unless, some top secret nuclear type simmydimmy (or dominatrix and/or S&M practices! (^*^)) is taking place at the Ministry of... SPORT and YOUTH AFFAIRS!

La Diva

The smarter the journalists are, the better off society is. For to a degree, people read the press to inform themselves-and the better the teacher, the better the student body. Warren Buffet

Perhaps this is where they

Perhaps this is where they start,gathering all information into how successfully it works.
If you live in Trinbago you will understand what people are talking about the inefficiency in offices especially in government offices due to the behavour og the people, you will also know that holdups are regularly done in offices on workers fo the small money that they go to work with.
This is one of the best ideas that has surfaced in this country and yes it should be extended to banks and everywhere, quick elimination when the police has to solve a crime. Quick recognition of a fingerprint that is not supposed to be there and is in the data base that the police have.
But then as things become efficient we may lose the negativity that we so thrive on in this country.

Sorry Dinah

Sorry Dinah

Perhaps this is where they start,gathering all information into how successfully it works.

Sorry, there is a part of me that is still a 'Doubting Thomasina' on this one.

If you live in Trinbago you will understand what people are talking about the inefficiency in offices especially in government offices due to the behavour og the people

Trinbago does not have the monopoly on inefficiency in offices. In addition, implementing a biometric SECURITY system is not going to improve inefficiencies. The staff could still be on site and hang around the water coolers, kitchen areas, have their simmydimmies with each other, in the very same building. I once read that if you want to appear busy, just walk around with a sheaf of papers... you can capture someone physically, but you cannot capture their mind. What is to stop someone 'sitting at their desk' but they are dreaming about being in Hawaii, surfing and doing the hola dances?

, you will also know that holdups are regularly done in offices on workers fo the small money that they go to work with.

Again, the question needs to be asked on this... is it 'an inside job' ie. the security personnel on the door are not being vagilante and letting any 'Tom, Dick and Henrietta' into the building?

I still think this is a sledge hammer to crack a walnut. If the REAL issue is inefficiency, then retraining, six monthly assessments, 'pep talks', hiring of people for their skills rather than because of who they know, may be more the type of tonic required. Providing one's fingerprint(s)? Does not sit 'quietly' with me.

Someone mentioned the use of the same technology in police stations. Why couldn't one have been selected to 'test' the technology, if what you suspect, is true?

As I also asked, and as The Prince has also asked... what is the cost of this technology and who 'won' the contract/mandate to provide the technology. As mentioned earlier, I may have my reservations/disquiet for the rationale, but because of whose Ministry is doing the implementing... that disquiet is like a red hot iron scratcher in my head, rather than the persistant sound of wind chimes, which gets annoying after a while.

La Diva

The smarter the journalists are, the better off society is. For to a degree, people read the press to inform themselves-and the better the teacher, the better the student body. Warren Buffet

La Diva, the type of

La Diva, the type of security measures you implement i.e steel door, biometric reader, card swipe etc. depend on the risk factors for the particular situation. Risk is assessed on two criteria (1) Possibility of it happening and (2) The impact if it does happen.

Neither of us can assess the risk simply based on the fact that it is the Ministry of Sport and my comments were absolutely not related to the risk. It was related simply to the privacy aspect on which, according to the article, the staff based their objections.

My view is that if the biometric technology is required for schools or banks, then by all means.. Technology should be used to provide a solution to a business or security requirement.

Privacy or security

You hit the nail smack on

You hit the nail smack on the head..Like everything else, a proper business assessment needs to be done prior to the implementation of any new technology solutions. In this case a proper security Threat and Risk assessment should have been done and if the recommended solution was a biometric system and the business area had a valid cost/benefit justification then they've got the green light.

Given the track record of the T&T Government, I will confidently guess that they did not do their homework..

Yes all true comments. De

Yes all true comments.

De slackers realize no more free time to go to the rum shop and skylark. I worked on the port before and boi, talk about some rum heads during working hours. I am sure thats any gov't job in trini. Then they go say we striking for better wages. Trini's have it made. No snow, no creditors, wok when you want and some of them have over 200 days of vacation leave to take at once. I wouldn't want my finger to tell them when I am late either If it was for drinks in the bar, I would do my finger, eye and big toe to drink on a lunch time. Sad to say, progress doesnt exsist in tnt. Trini timing is de best timing, two hrs late.

"Infringes on people's

"Infringes on people's identity"

That is the most rediculous argument i've ever heard. I can't believe that the ministry decided to put the project on hold because of this. By implementing this new system, they (the ministry) is not using or accquiring any information that they don't already have on file for employees. This is nothing more that what was described so many times in previous comments - workers fighting to keep the convenience of being able to lie about being at work when they're actually not. These folks are fortunate that they work for such a lax employer in other developed nations they would have already been asked to resign because they pose security risk to the organization and don't share the same values of the ministry

We are living in different

We are living in different times and you can't put a price on "national security" maybe "national pride". I am all for increased and enhanced security.

But coming after the "priceless national pride flag", I have to ask myself who got the contract and how much it cost.

I would have expected to see places like the Ministries of National Security and Foreign Affairs, the Palace, Central Bank and other sensitive departments having priority and being supplied with this kind of hi-tech kind of equipment, but Ministry of Sports and Youth Affairs? What do they have to protect and secure? Gary Hunt and his secrets about the $2 million flag? All those free tickets he collects?

Yeh! (The) Prince

Yeh! (The) Prince

For a moment, I thought I may be the lone voice in the (flatulence) wind! (^_~)

Journalists, we need you to ask some succint and pertinent questions please, into this also, considering the Minister involved. Please also drill down and don't just accept the first cost figure provided. As we saw with the flag, we were told it cost a few tens of thousands of TT dollars, but by the time the TRUE figure was revealed, which included the infrastructure, the figure was TT$2 million and upwards.

It would also be interesting to know what security is being used in places like the UN, the White House, MI5, MI6, FBI, CIA, even the Israeli and Russian Secret Service buildings!

La Diva

The smarter the journalists are, the better off society is. For to a degree, people read the press to inform themselves-and the better the teacher, the better the student body. Warren Buffet

La Diva, we used to trust

La Diva, we used to trust the Government, but since our trust has been so badly abused, it is not surprising that whatever they do arouses our suspicions. They have conditioned us to be sensitive and on high alert. It is a healthy thing for good governance but sadly it has come at a very high cost and still they continue to give us sixes for nines.

WE COULD BE OVER ANALYSING

WE COULD BE OVER ANALYSING -

It could be just Hunte trying to show off that he is high tech state of the art without consideration as to applicability. But isn't that why we build an academy of the arts when we need a performing arena. We break down the Grand Stand and have no stage to properly display carnival.

 
 

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