Tuesday March 16th, 2010
- Last update:17 hours 9 min ago
Vasant throws down challenge
Published: 27 Oct 2009
Anyone in the UNC, who believes he/she has a lot of support for a position, could test the waters when the party’s election is held on January 24, 2010, UNC chairman Vasant Bharath said yesterday. He was commenting on a call at Sunday’s congress for UNC leader Basdeo Panday to step down and let deputy Kamla Persad Bissessar take over. Panday told the Congress the call was duly noted. When asked about it after the Congress, Persad-Bissessar said it was the view of one member and not the view of all.
She said the UNC was a democracy and while she was sure she had some fans, she would have to speak to her constituency about any such call. However, she emphasised the only way to beat the PNM and for T&T to move forward was via unity. Yesterday vice chairman Bharath said, “The call that was made, goes to show that the democratic process is being observed strenuously in UNC. There’s no filtering process. Once you’re a financial member you’re allowed to say whatever you wish - we don’t try to shut anyone up.”
Mr. Vasant Bharath,
Mr. Vasant Bharath, Sir:
Anyone can throw their hat into the ring. A gentleman stood up and recommended that Mr. Panday step aside and allow Mrs. Bissessar to take over. I don's see anything wrong with this.
Mrs. B. will make her decision when the time is right. Having Mr. Panday as leader for the next 2 months is a lomg time and a lots can take place.
We need civility from the Opposition, as our citizens are very concerned about what's taking place in our country.
Be on your best behavious .. no yelling and screaming .. and taking your cookies and going home. Prove to the public that you got what it takes to sit in their Parliament.
Gardenia
Gardenia, the situation
Gardenia, the situation calls for sacrifice. And the greatest contribution and sacrifice that anyone can make in the interest of their country is to sacrifice their egos and some of their pride.
For us who believe, God sacrificed his one and only beloved Son so that the world can be saved. So what is the cost to some men to sacrifice some of their egos?
DEMOCRACY AT WORK
DEMOCRACY AT WORK -
Isn't it nice to see democracy at work in a political party? The problem Panday have now he too democratic. I remember when Ramesh came back he was booed; Panday stood up to his defence and was booed also. This was when Ramesh claimed he had political tabanca and he loved Panday. You would not see this kind of democracy in PNM or COP. PNM has a delegate system not one man one vote. Dookeran immediately removed Sharon Gopaul-Mc Nicholls for accepting a Senatorship in UNC, did she get the opportunity that RAMJACK got to face a disciplinary committee. It is ok to comment on Panday's failings, but try to be fair and balanced.
Which version of democracy?
Which version of democracy? -
You have a somewhat skewed sense of Democracy - or at least Panday's version of Democracy. If he were "too democratic" as you suggesting he would have taken up the challenge as given by Mr. Abdul at the congress and done a consensus of sentiment among those gathered. That, however, and god's face you would never have seen. The LAST thing Panday needed the media (yes, the biased, terrible evil Darth Media - how DARE they report verbatim!) to expose to the public is consensus AGAINST his leadership within his own congress. That would have been the epitome of political suicide Panday likes to talk about so much, but Panday eh no fool. Voice of the people my eye, wait till January when the voices of the people can be selected to be heard and the predictable results given. The only reason there is the appearance of democracy at this time in the UNC is because the dissident faction forced the party leadership to adhere to the party's constitution. Let all them who get ketch with Panday's version of democracy understand what he thinks of the Voice of the People - he hasn't told you which people.
"You would not see this kind of democracy in PNM or COP. PNM has a delegate system not one man one vote."
Really?
Seems to the entire country that there were up to 500 DELEGATES present at the UNC's congress on Sunday. Recall the bacchanal at the UNC's congress some months ago: http://guardian.co.tt/news/politics/2009/03/23/panday-sad-day
Panday said the meeting was for DELEGATES only, and used that as the excuse to keep ordinary common grassroots folk out of the meeting. The same grassroots he conveniently boasts about "battling in the trenches with". Who else is unaware that the UNC operates a delegate system as well?
"You would not see this kind of democracy in PNM or COP." - God I hope not.
Sharon Gopaul-McNicholls met with Dookeran and others and Panday's senator strategy was discussed and she was essentially given a choice and told of the consequences. She made her choice. Perhaps yes, it could have been taken even further (how much further could it be taken though) and S G-M brought before a committee, to discuss the same thing that was discussed before she took her decision... which would have been futile because her choice would have already been made. In that respect perhaps it does come across to some as unfair - but there is little if anything a disciplinary committee could have done about anything. Sharon Gopaul-McNicholls and her PhD in Psychology fell for the old greener pastures gimmick. But knowing Dookeran, when she jumps ship, he will take her back, open arms and all. Democracy at work, ent!
Marchalis seems like you
Marchalis seems like you like to hear and read your own voice. If the meeting quorum was for delegates only, it was for delegates. There are rules and systems here with UNC, compare PNM any systems till they go to court and tribunals. PNM killing the country. Panday will patch it up and get UNC larger bigger and stronger and he will do me a favour and fix the things I have been talking about especially sugar cane . If UNC gets into power we will buy back the lands and plant cane and put it into law that a PNM govt cant touch it, never again, and we will dismantle the AL smelter too and regrow the mangroves.
Mr. Fantasy Island poster
Mr. Fantasy Island poster -
Bruddaman, if you believe any of that tripe you just laid out, that will be your lil' secret. Not even the most die-hard UNC could read that and keep a straight face. My previous post was not intended for such as your good self - you are beyond redemption, so you get to go down with the UNC in flaming glory. Yeah, Super Baz gonna rescue T&T... run with dat notion!!!!! Tell Learie Joseph I say "what's up!"
And next time, before you jump on your keyboard, try and understand what people talking about. No one said any meeting wasn't for delegates. The argument was one of one party having delegates and a semblance of lack of democracy, while the other was portrayed as favouring democracy by not having delegates. The examples I gave put that wish to rest.
If I hear and "read my own voice" over and over, is only because some people can't get it through their skulls, and for the sake of doing whatever I can to find a way to democratically vamp out Patrick Manning from power, I will continue to post. Do enjoy your day.
Marchalis you and another M
Marchalis you and another M have been the most obnoxious contributors on this blog line, Where did you awake from when we we were nicely debating obviously you have not got the finesse for decent blog lines, Shall NOT read you anymore. Your comments are not worth the hassle.Any one for seasonings?
Finesse and Ignorance
Finesse and Ignorance -
It is questionable reasoning by persons that have the country up the creek today. Continued questionable reasoning will see us continue to be up the creek. I respond the way I do sometimes because I have little tolerance for stupidity given the kind of nonsense people putting forth as reasons to continue with the status quo. Rome is burning, you and yours take time to be "finesse". You wish to exercise your democratic right to ignore my postings...
Watch me suffer!
IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT GET TO
IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT GET TO HELL OUT OF HERE -
You mean to say that she was given a command, like a dictator. He learn that from Panday.Warner and Ramesh will never let Panday talk to them like that. as amatter fact when the join as JACKRAMCOP he will not be able to talk to Jack or Ramesh like that. Then we will see who is man as opposed who like to beat up on woman.That is why he surronded himself with only female deputies until one stand up to him. Jack and Ramesh were right he is a WEAK LEADER, he like to beat up woman politically.
Poor example
Poor example -
If you appear ignorant of what happened with her and Dookeran, it's not because you don't know. It's because you don't want to know.
http://guardian.co.tt/news/general/2009/04/24/bas-does-barack-sharon-app...
The truth is there for all who choose to see.
Dookeran revoked Gopaul-McNicol’s post as COP deputy leader. In which way is this the same as telling her to "get to hell out"? Her POSITION as deputy leader was revoked, because of the possibility that the party could be (further) compromised. This is common sense, so your dictator analogy is merely a woefully poor attempt to paint Dookeran in the same light as other political leaders. Her party membership remained intact. This too is public knowledge. If she chose to remain in the party or jump ship to the UNC, that would be her personal choice.
As for beating up on women politically... You GOT to be joking!! Other than his daughter's safe seat, and Kamla's popularity in the party, WHICH FEMALE occupies a safe seat in Panday's party? Other than Kelvin Gloria-Henry-is-a-slut Ramnath, who cornered the market on beating up on women politically more than Basdeo Panday? Eh? Ask Kamla! Better yet, read what she said at the UNC-A Victory Rally October 2007:
http://news.bn.gs/article.php?story=20071008154043243
You are in no position to criticize anyone more than Panday for beating up politically on any woman.
I WOULD EXPECT BETTER
I WOULD EXPECT BETTER -
If you have such disdain for Paday’s behaviour, I am surprised to see some of the same behaviour by your esteemed leader.
Keep expecting
Keep expecting -
As usual, I have not a clue what you talking about. I put zero faith in any man to lead me anywhere. You do not know who my leader is because I have chosen none - a fact I made clear here months now. You put your faith in Panday and he leading you to be displayed as the national laughing stock follower of a national laughing stock party. Your puerile attempt to denigrate what I said speaks volumes as you cannot intelligently counter what I posted. Typical when someone is faced with VERIFIED facts that demolish purposely spread false information. I would have expected better! But I am not disappointed. I see that I have engaged in a battle of thinking with someone who is clearly unarmed. I will advantage you no more as I was always taught not tuh kick ah man when he down.
You see UNC is democratic,
You see UNC is democratic, Panday is too democratic, one remarked. Let denocracy rule, look whats happening up front with PNM tangled up in their own democracy- forgetting to gazette the UDECOTT enquiry, forget my left foot. Is that democracy? Panday is a smart guy, he will do it the right way. In the meantime, Gardenia, I am making Matouks green seasoning up here from my own herbs if anyone wants a 100 g.
From what I saw on
From what I saw on television, when the motion was put to the floor, those for, were in the majority with many abstaining. One wonders why so many abstained and why none or very few said nay. It is my opinion that many in the UNC don't want to show their hand but if revealed, a whole lot of them would like Mr. Panday to go. There seems to be a fear to step forward and be recognized as one calling for the 'boss' to go but within, that is the cry. Even Mrs. Persad-Bissessar I believe would like Mr. Panday to go but she seems to be playing the waiting and watching game. He has done his part, he has taken the party as far as he can and from all appearances, the party can go no further if he remains at the helm. One must know when it is time to bow out gracefully and I believe now is.
Desmond Smith - Lovely
Desmond Smith - Lovely Day.
Its life interesting. Enjoy the 4 seasons. Are you looking for sanity OR insanity? I still have a lot of herbs in my garden. Had a very strong gust that did a lot of damage, and it blew off one of my best window boxes and damaged the plants in full bloom, and box too. I am a good cook and using fresh herbs is a luxury I enjoy. You cannot call it Matouks, if you are making your own version. It should be Desmond's Green Seasoning, Matouks style. I have learned when to keep my distance. London looks interesting this time of year. I enjoy window shopping, and I could take a walk around the West End at this time of year and forget the rest of the world exists. One of these days my boy... Take care of yourself. Will try to keep an eye out for you.
Enjoy the Autumn and keep your sanity.
Gardenia
Gardenia, look after our
Gardenia, look after our friend Des. He's going out on a limb for those seasoned herbs. Remember "Matouks" is a patented brand. These days you can't even use a name ressembling an established registered name.
The Prince - Friend! I
The Prince - Friend!
I always look after my friends .. and they in turn do the same for me. I was reading the exchanges and wondering a lot of ... Why's. Valuable lesson in life. Better stick to 'green seasoning', its safer. Keep a watchful eye on us.
Till tomorrow.
Gardenia
Desmond , as long as Basdeo
Desmond , as long as Basdeo Panday remains political leader of the UNC , the PNM will win the general elections and there will be be no unity with the UNC and the other opposition parties .
The B-ass is the BANE of the UNC .
ATW-Barbados .
Wiggins, I have always
Wiggins, I have always enjoyed your contribution but no say Bas is an axx, no need, We all have our opinions. I believe Bas can do it again, I am a family friend of Bas and I know him very well. I know he can pull it off for the UNC. GO Bas go!! Des is on your side, my friend.. just fix the sugar cane for me nx time thats where we came from- from our Indian background, thats all I ask you to consider. go get em tiger Bas. you still have it in you, age is no barrier, stick to priciples and you will conquer them all.
THEY GOING FROM EXCUSE TO
THEY GOING FROM EXCUSE TO EXCUSE -
Remember when they went Manos a Manos with Bas they were supposed to win the election I think the projected 25 seats, a bajan pollster named Wickham and the ANSA Mc Cal Poll. Bas and UNC win 15 seats they win 0. Now they change the tune if Panday is in charge the opposition cannot win elections . Dookeran was incharge and they win 0 seats but that is ok. So they want Panday and UNC with 15 seats to step aside and give them the opportunity to win. How much march they march and get licks to build a party? If yuh so good you do not need Panday to step aside. PNM did not need Panday to step aside. That is the most boldface backward logic I have ever heard. If is anyone to call shots is the one with most seats not the one with the most talk. These are people who talk about a meritocracy. I suppose if their son has 4 A' Levels and 8 O' Levels and he went for a job they would want the job to be given to someone with 1 O' Level pass. These people are ludicrous going from one excuse to the other for their failure at the polls. I suppose that T&T are the World Champions because they made less runs and NSW thief. That is upside down nonsense. They are in COP but they want to dictate the pace inside UNC all yuh farse and out of place. Anybody could stay outside COP and say that they want Ramadah as leader because he is younger, better spoken and more dynamic than Dookeran. Why yuh all do not change Dookeran for Ramadah if yuh concerned about age. Blatant hypocrisy like allyuh feel yuh own T&T and could tell everybody how to run they party. Stop meddling in other people’s business it is uncouth.
How long now
How long now -
How long now the man at the helm of the plea for opposition unity calling the shots? And each time he had all the seats while the others he went desperately trying to woo had none. And consistently, what have been the results of his pleas? And how long now he getting the same electoral results? And how long again you want people to look at that equation and assume a different result will emerge from the same formula? Right there, that is the internationally accepted definition of lunacy - repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Don't hate because people smarter than Panday wants them to be. If the UNC is Panday's party, no problem yuh know... NOBODY have any right to tell the man how to run it. But in such a case he would be damn farce and out of place to offer that club up for national governance. You can't offer democracy when you run a one-man show. It's the same bloody reason people up in arms over Manning and Calder Hart.
There is a REASON why Panday is not wanted by the vast majority.
IF PANDAY IS NOT WANTED WHAT
IF PANDAY IS NOT WANTED WHAT IS DOOKERAN?
Panday is not wanted has 15 seats and is the leader of the opposition. Dookeran is wanted has 0 seats and is outside parliament. I suggest that Ramadah be the Leader of COP, he is younger, articulate and more dynamic. He and Kamla are close and unity would be achieved more easily. Dookeran is the stumbling block. The ex-UNC MP's got together in an attempt to forge unity and Dookeran scuttled it he does not want them to talk with Panday. As soon as he heard that he run and hugs up Jack. So yes there are some who do not want Panday, but there are some influential people who were foundation members in COP who want to include him. Where are Gillian, Yet Ming, Griffith, Ganga Singh and Ransaran sidelined? Dookeran is not listening he is a failed leader and his pompous grandstanding is fooling no one. Performance beats ole talk anytime. 15 seats beat 0 seats anytime.
Dookeran is
Dookeran is -
* "Failed" enough to snatch 148,000 votes from the opposition UNC and incumbent PNM, a mean feat for a new leader and a new party. The momentum of that 148,000 is bound to propel him into a decisive position next election, given Manning's unpopularity and Panday's uselessness - probably the main reason Panday running him down so badly
* not before the courts for corruption and misbehaviour in public office
* not before the courts with his wife for corruption
* not an ex-convict, and waiting to be re-tried as per the orders of the Privy Council
* not someone who publicly tossed his wife under the bus:
"That million dollars belongs to Oma, who does not work"
"A man gih she dat money, and I diddn know!"
* not being asked to step down - FROM WITHIN HIS OWN PARTY'S CONGRESS!!!
* not as "pompous and arrogant" that he would snarl and skin his teeth menacingly at reporters
* not being asked and begged to just plain GO, wherever he appears
* not running a one-man club, scuttling his party's constitution.
and most importantly:
* NOT ABOUT TO JOIN BASDEO PANDAY - fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
Take note, all of the above are FACTS. I'm not into passing off opinions as facts, as many here do.
He does have some negatives of course, but looking at Manning and Panday, it's no wonder people running from those parties.
I have not a clue what you talking about when you say "there are some influential people who were foundation members in COP who want to include him (Panday)", and apparently neither do you since you failed to name anyone... unless you referring to Gary Griffith. Nah, couldn't be - you said INFLUENTIAL, FOUNDATION so that rules out that political pet who never strayed too far from Panday's kennel. Like you forgetting the COP describes ALL IT'S MEMBERS as foundation members... Just a guess, I wouldn't know, I'm not a member. You real crack me up when you talk about "pompous and arrogant"!! I thought we were talking about Dookeran, but like you went back to Panday - tied with Manning and Robin Montano and Jack Warner for the title of Pompous and Arrogant.
To answer your question, Dookeran is, everything Panday is NOT.
THANKFULLY!!!!!!
Winston Dookeran is still, by NO MEANS perfect... but when you look at what we have, he damn sure hell seems a much better option.
STILL NO DAMMED SEATS
STILL NO DAMMED SEATS -
NO dammed seats. It like saying that your child failed all his exams and your response is he is a good scout; he picks up paper in the school yard, he good looking. All the other things are good but he still failed his exams. Dookeran failed his exams don't matter how you spin it; Prakash Ramadhar is a much better alternative. The sycophants around Dookeran are keeping the party and unity process back. Prakash is respected by those in the other parties and will be successful, he could not be worst. Prackash is everthing Dookeran is not.
DOOKERAN - Old, Booring, Slugish, Theoritical, Uninspiring, Rejected by Kamla
PRAKASH - Young, Captivating, Agile, Practical, Motivating, Friend of Kamla
That was never in doubt
That was never in doubt -
Of course he still has no seats! The point is he has made an impressive showing for a new party. A strong enough showing that has kept the momentum. Additionally, the COP's members are far more active in current issues and are taking the fight for people's rights straight to the government. What the UNC boy's club deadbeats doing??? Nothing. Why, probably because dey have 15 seats nah, so dem eh need tuh do nutten. The COP's members are indeed very active and very visible. They are KEEPING THE MOMENTUM GOING. When the time comes, it is the momentum coupled with disgust for Panday's club and dislike for Manning's governance that will translate votes effectively into seats. There is more interest in them and their activities than the near-death UNC boy's club. This is borne out by the fact that the UNC boy's club can't manage more than a few attendees at their Monday night wakes. The UNC's membership ranks have decreased greatly judging by those that increasingly calling for Panday's head as well as the total lack of interest in Panday's hollow call for unity.
In all honesty I can find little to disagree with in your description of Dookeran - all are negatives, except the rejected by Kamla part. That is no loss for Dookeran... or anybody for that matter. I find some favour in Ramadhar. I'm not too sure about the "friend to Kamla" part. You seem to place some measure of importance on Kamla like she some god or asset - if she had 1/10 the value that some in the COP and the UNC boy's club place on her she would have told Basdeo Panday what time it is and put bloody country before bloody party. Kamla is worthless in this regard, anyone with a party/club before country mentality needs to be rejected until they correct that anti-country way of thinking. As much as she is being seen as some as a possible leader of the UNC boy's club (over Bas dead body, and she knows it), she need to chuck that "Panday's pet" groveling at his feet waiting for scraps attitude and display the strength of womanhood that is expected of her. This tail between the legs kowtow to the maximum leader attitude is NOT something that Trinidad & Tobago needs as we seek to position ourselves as a major force in the Caribbean. For now she has the persona of a battered house-wife who would NEVER get respect because she has NEVER stood up to her husband, merely FOR him. And that is why the COP will not take her seriously. She is Bas slave. Kamla needs to shake her slavery shackles NOW. THEN she could start coming across as something resembling a leader.
DOUBLE STANDARDS
DOUBLE STANDARDS -
You want Kamla to stand up against Panday, but when Sharon Gopaul-Mc Nicholls stand up against Dookeran she is disciplined and you accept it. When a motion is moved for Kamla to be leader you applaud it yet in the next breath you criticize here for being loyal.
Double standards
Double standards -
What did Sharon Gopaul-Mc Nichols "stand up" for?
The "right" to join/speak on behalf of/present the agenda of/promote an opposing party, out to destroy "the Corpse", and STILL hold on to her deputy leader status. Her position was thus revoked. If she was expelled from the party that might have been different. If you choose not to see the common sense in removing her from a leadership position, that is YOUR business.
What did Kamla "stand up" for?
Nothing.
At any rate, our opposing arguments could be rationalised only if we both took the position that Basdeo Panday is anti-progress and needs to be replaced or at the very least, stood up to - a position shared by the majority of persons in T&T, including half a million voters, as well as persons within the opposition UNC, delegates and senior party members, some highly influential. Since we are both diametrically opposed to each other's positions, me being in favour of progress and you being in favour of Panday, it would be pointless to attempt to reason with you - which by the way I would not waste my time doing... I simply enjoy shooting you down.
Desmond , you are entitled
Desmond , you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine . My spelling is different to yours , maybe you are more educated than I am . It is my opinion that Panday is the BANE of the UNC but that is not your opinion , no problem . Desmond , you believe that ATW-Barbados .