A decade short of a century, former prime minister Basdeo Panday waxes poetic on his life thus far. In a wide-ranging interview with the Sunday Guardian, he delves into the causes of divisions in society, what is needed to deal with the present crime scourge, his thoughts on the upcoming Local Government Elections and his current views on the party he founded, the United National Congress (UNC). He shares his thoughts on the country’s industrial relations climate, the Judiciary, constitutional reform, Senior Counsel title, and creating a peace of mind. This is Part 1.
Q: Your famous quotes as a political leader and Prime Minister have been “If you see me and a lion fighting, don’t feel sorry for me, feel sorry for the lion,” and “Politics has a morality of its own,” do you today, at 90, still stand by these?
A: I still stand by my statement that “politics has its own morality.” However, with respect to the first question there has been a slight change. “If you see me and a lion fighting, pray to God that the lion has no teeth.”
At age 90, you have managed to overcome many challenges–health, incarceration, the party which you founded being ‘hijacked’, what would you say has been the most challenging situation you had to face?
None so hard as the struggle to remove from our beloved land the politics of racial/ethnic and other deleterious divisions in society.
Did growing up in St Julien Village prepare you for the path you took as an adult and the life you are living today?
My parents were peasant farmers. Among other crops, we had some sugar cane. My father had bought a mule to take the canes to the scale yard. Among my many chores was to clean that filthy, stinking mule pen day after day. I abhorred that chore and day after day I wondered how I could possibly get out of this burden. After much thought, I came to the conclusion that the answer was education. I think that is why when I went abroad to study I pursued so many different disciplines.
Were you subjected to racial slurs in England and how did you handle it?
When I went to London in 1957, I had no money and had to be accommodated by a friend. I worked as a labourer on some building sites, as an electrician mate, and as a clerk at the London County Council and as an actor. Most of the people were kind and considerate, and at that level, I experienced very little discrimination. But that was not always the case. On one occasion when I was looking for a room to rent, I saw a notice in a shop window and I phoned the landlady who confirmed that the room was still vacant. I went to the address given and rang the doorbell. When the landlady opened the door and saw me she screamed and slammed the door in my face. Had I read the advertisement carefully I would have noticed the addition: “No blacks and dogs allowed.” There were similar instances during my nine years in London.
When you came back to Trinidad, did you consider yourself a radical or a patriot for change?
Not at all. In 1965 I came home to visit my family before proceeding to Delhi to take up a Commonwealth scholarship to do postgraduate study at the University of Delhi. But I attended a few meetings of the labour movement that was struggling against the introduction of the Industrial Stabilisation Act (ISA). I was so caught up with that struggle that I abandoned my scholarship and never turned back.
What made you leave law practice to get into politics?
Having been caught up in the workers’ struggle I decided to stop talking and go into the trenches with them which landed me in confrontation with the police, jail and other abuses. I did appear for some unions in the Industrial Court which was established under the Industrial Relations Act, the successor to the ISA.
Flashback November 2019: Then president Paula-Mae Weekes presents former prime minister Basdeo Panday with his Honorary Doctor of Laws degree from the University of T&T.
Courtesy UTT
Do you believe that as a long-standing attorney, you should have been bestowed the Senior Counsel title?
No. I understood that the concept of “Silk” was a means of recognising attorneys-at-law who had long-standing brilliance and excellence at the Bar. I do not think the ward was for mere survival at the Bar and I did not deserve it.
As a trade union leader for so many years, how will you describe the country’s industrial relations climate at this time, and what advice would you give to trade union leaders?
The Industrial Stabilisation Act has virtually killed the traditional relationship between employer and employee. The act removed the traditional power structure between the workers represented by the trade unions to take traditional industrial actions, such as strikes, go-slows, demonstrations etc, in the event of a dispute, and the power of the employer to lock out the workers. That balance of power usually ended in a resolution of the dispute. The successor Industrial Relations Act changed the power relationship between employer and employee by insisting that all industrial relations disputes be referred to the Industrial Court, so forcing the trade union leaders to become “lawyers” or paying high-priced lawyers to represent them. The employer being in a better financial position to employ expensive lawyers changed the power structure between employer and employee to the detriment of the latter ... the movement has been robbed of its traditional power to battle with the employers for better conditions for the workers they represented. In so doing the parties were in an equal power relationship, with the workers having the power to strike and the employer having the power to lockout. The parties were in a balanced power relationship. That is no longer the case.
The Industrial Relations Act has destroyed the relationship between the union and employer. The leaders of the trade unions must now resort to the Industrial Court, pretending to be lawyers, or having to hire expensive lawyers to represent them. The traditional power relationship between employer and employee no longer exists. The only way forward is for the workers to unite and obtain political power in order to re-establish a new power relationship between employer and employee.
Former government minister Jack Warner and former prime minister Basdeo Panday embrace during a function hosted by Chaguanas West MP Ganga Singh at Passage to Asia Restaurant, Chaguanas, in December 2019.
SHASTRI BOODAN
In your political career, you made many good friends and some enemies. Who do you consider to be your very good political friends and your political enemies?
Very good political friends were few; political enemies were many. Such is the nature of politics. When I left electoral (or rather when politics let me) and was free of the burden of Government I had the time to turn my attention to other important matters such as the meaning of, and the search for happiness. I realised that to have peace of mind, the highest form of happiness, one has got to get rid of hatred, bitterness, envy, greed, spite, malice and such deleterious tendencies. In order to achieve this, I conceptually converted all my enemies into friends. That has made me a very happy person.
You have been vehemently clamouring for constitutional reform, what prevented you from implementing this under your tenure? What were the obstacles or challenges?
I am convinced that our Constitution, which is based on the Westminster model, is totally unsuited to us. We are a small society living in crucible-like conditions. Our fears, our hopes, and our aspirations are not the same as the British. If the function of a constitution is to ensure the greatest happiness to the greatest number of our citizens, then our Constitution has failed miserably so to do. Our Constitution must have regard for our own hopes, our fears, our aspirations, and the fiercely divided nature of our society.
In order to peacefully introduce a new Constitution for T&T there must be a vote in the Parliament of not less than a three-quarters majority for some clauses, and for some clauses a two-thirds majority. We did not have such a majority and therefore could not reform the Constitution. In the history of T&T, only three prime ministers had such a majority. They were Dr Eric Williams, ANR Robinson and Kamla Persad-Bissessar. Neither of them wanted to change the Constitution. They preferred to maintain the politics of race.
Former prime ministers Patrick Manning and Basdeo Panday at Presentation College Reunion in 2010.
Do you see hope for T&T with the two major political parties?
NO.
In March, the DPP discontinued the 18-year-old corruption charge against you and your wife, Oma, for allegedly receiving £25,000 from businessmen Ishwar Galbaransingh and Carlos John in relation to the Piarco Airport project, do you think the matter took too long in court and how would you describe the state of the Judiciary in T&T?
It was an intolerable burden for me and my family to endure for so many years. I pity the many hundreds of innocent people who have waited, and some who are still waiting for so long to establish their innocence. The Judiciary should not have been deprived of the facilities required to enable them to perform their sacred functions.
PM Rowley has said publicly that Opposition Leader Kamla Persad-Bisessar can’t escape the Piarco airport scandal, do you think that as PM at the time this project started that you should shoulder some blame?
The parliamentary records will show that when the Leader of the Opposition, Patrick Manning accused the Government of corruption with respect to the airport, the entire project was handed over to the National Industrial Development Company (NIPDEC) an independent entity, to build the airport. If I am not mistaken, I believe that the Privy Council held that allegations against members of the Government were politically motivated.
Flashback April 2010: Basdeo Panday, centre, leaves Port-of-Spain Magistrates’ Court with his wife, Oma, left, and daughter Mickela.